Hey! Did you see what David Krings wrote on Aug 1 ?
DK> >DK> ><snipped double quoted>
DK> >DK> >Pah! You come from Windows, don't you :-)
DK> >DK> >Like someone says in his/her sig:
DK> >DK> >"You have moved the mouse.
DK> >DK> >Windows has to be rebooted for the changes to take effect..."
DK> >DK>
DK> >DK> Then i wonder why there is any reboot option in Linux if it is the most
DK> >DK> fatal error a Linux user can do - i thought Linux is bugless. ;)
DK> >
DK> >You thought wrong dude. No one ever said Linux was "bugless"
DK>
DK> This reply was more aimed to the way Marc Mutz replied to it coming along
DK> a bit like the "superior user of Linux who is better than the rest of the
DK> universe". On some days i get ticked off pretty easy, hehe.
Yep, me too. But this whole thing is starting to get a little out of
hand. Mark's original comments (you come from a Windoze world...) were
said very "tongue-in-cheek". I tried to continue with the humour, but
unfortuately got onto a bit of a soap-box...sorry.
DK> If you are talking about Microsoft Windows 95 i can only say that i
DK> installed it in September 95 and had to do one reinstall because i was
DK> using a broken Bus master driver. I bet Linux would be messed up pretty
DK> much if its kernel is partly broken. Besides that i run that system without
DK> any problems every day, no data loss, no brakadowns, no problems at all.
DK> That's why I don't understand why all the others have so much trouble with
DK> it. I have mostly widely supported hardware, e.g. a genuine SB and not one
DK> of these 66% compatibles, same with my board, nic, scanner, streamer,
DK> drives, video card and so on, so maybe that's why.
DK> I don't call W95 "da bomb" of OS, but i really wonder very hard why my
DK> copy is working so well and all the others don't.
You are lucky. At the time Win95 came out I was retailing
hardware/software to the SOHO market. Sold a lot of systems, sold a truck
load of Win95...Had a mountain of problems. I even spoke to a Microsoft
tech-support guy who said that on average most installations of Win95 get
re-installed once a month.
Oh, and if you would like to see your Win95 crash, just turn it on and
leave it after 46.something days it _WILL_ crash. This is a Microsoft
documented bug/feature. And the best thing is that you don't even have to
do anything...just turn it on...Windoze will do the rest.
DK> >The reboot functionality of Linux is there for three reasons...
DK>
DK> >
DK> >1 - To install new hardware.
DK>
DK> Hmm, it is more that in interest of the hardware one has to switch off
DK> the puter. I guess if it would work with power on Linux could handle it.
You betcha! :)
DK> >2 - To upgrade the kernel
DK>
DK> Never did that, I'm a bit afraid of that after I tried to get soundcard
DK> support into a SuSE 6.0 and therefore had to recompile the kernel (great,
DK> isn't it ?). As a bloody newbie that is not really what one should start
DK> with. I'm keen on one of these 2.2 kernels, but right now there are new
DK> patch levels every week and i go fine with my 2.0.36.
Everything is difficult if you don't know how. Nothing in Linux is
actually hard to do. Sometimes you just need to be carefull and to take
precautions (make backups of working kernels before you start messing
around).
As for thinking about a 2.2 kernel. My advice would be to stick to 2.0.36
if it's working for you. Then when your ready get a Distribution CD that
has a 2.2 kernel on it. (pretty sure that SuSe has released a 2.2
version).
DK> >3 - For the people who can't bear to let go of Microsoft's apron-strings
DK>
DK> That is not really the reason why i shutdown my Linux box after i used it.
DK> Its pretty noisy and in order to save the environment and engery i see no
DK> good reason to let it run 24/7 if i use it only once in a while.
If your machine is that noisy that you can't bear to have it on 24/7,
perhaps you should have someone take a look at it. Computers aren't
supposed to make a great deal of noise...unless your engrossed in a game
of Linux DooM II :-)
DK> My aim is to get the turn to Linux completely, but as long as I don't have
DK> a clue of half what is going on and i can't do the same tasks as with my
DK> W95 i will use it both in good brotherhood with BeOS.
Cool. But if you make yourself say "no, I'm not going to boot into
Windoze just to do so and so, I'm gonna nut this out if it kills me",
you'll probably get to your ultimate dream sooner. :)
BTW, what's BeOS like? Just curious.
DK> My intention why i like Linux is not because i hate W95 to death and wish
DK> Bill Gates to rot in hell as it seems to be the motivation for tons of
DK> linux users. IMHO W95 is easier to use than Linux, what doesn't make it
DK> technically better, but for "users" that is what they want - use the
DK> computer and not get a nervous breakdown because they want to install sth
DK> silly like ICQ or an FTP program. I ran into tremendous problems with doing
Perhaps we should stop talking about "users" and refer to "passengers" and
"drivers". IMHO W95 is for "passengers", people who are happy to plod
along and do whatever the software companies say and not worry too much
when things go wrong. And Linux is for "drivers", people who want to take
control of how things are done on their own computer, and when something
goes wrong they're not afraid to take a look under the hood.
When the Linux "driver" gets in over his/her head, he/she comes to places
like this for assistance (not to have it done for them). And we won't
charge them a minimum of $35 just to say "hello, what's the problem".
Did you get the ICQ thing sorted, or are you still having trouble. Let us
know and we'll help.
DK> that on Linux and i'm sick of missing dependencies or 75 MB downloads that
Tell us exactly what the problem is and we'll try to help.
DK> then are an "unknown tar-archive" or request a file that is available under
One possible cause could be that you are downloading in Windoze and it is
mangling the filename.
DK> a slightly different name. I bitched about that in dozens of postings to
DK> the newbie list and Arandir and me came up with the idea to start a
DK> Software-installation-HOWTO as soon as we have time for sth major like
DK> that. I think that would be a great support for anyone who uses Linux and
DK> likes to install something neat like a StarOffice 5.1. I still try to do,
DK> but i can't even unpack the package *argls*.
Sounds like a good idea, a Software-installation-HOWTO. Don't know if it
would be very long though...
unpack package
few lines and examples on how to do this
read the docs
do what the docs say
Sorry, I'm just being a little facetious. Honestly, I think it's a good
idea. Let me know if you would like a hand.
DK> >Not once have I had to reboot because I installed a new program/package or
DK> >because I tweeked or re-configured something (apart from a kernel).
DK>
DK> Recently i have the problem from time to time that keyboard and mouse
DK> crash under X, looks like the whole system halts for some reason. Other
DK> days it runs smooth. So my RedHat 5.2 seems not to be that stable as
DK> everyone tries to make me think - and what shall i do then if i can't give
DK> commands (yea, telnet into ur machine....i will then after i finally set up
DK> the network where everyone says too that it is sooo easy :/).
DK> In that case i see no other chance than to press the so widely hated reset
DK> button.
Here's one thing that the 2.2 kernel excells in. Support for the "Magic
SysRq" key. (on my keyboard it's the "Print Screen/SysRQ" key). You press
alt+SysRq+k and it tells the kernel to kill everything on that console.
It gets top priority in the kernel. But alas, you are using a 2.0 kernel
so that's not an option for you :(
Have you tried switching to another console (ctrl+alt+F2) then killing of
X? Or have you tried just leaving it sit there for a while (10 or 20
minutes - go and have a coffee), it might not have "crashed" it could be
that it is just really busy.
DK> >Generally I find that people who constantly reboot Linux are people who
DK> >try to do Linux things the Windoze way, and because it is easier than
DK> >finding out how to do it the Linux way.
DK>
DK> Well, what is wrong with doing it the easy way if the result is the same ???
Re-booting a computer puts a lot of load on the hardware. It's like a
phloresent light bulb, they last a lot longer if you don't continually
turn them off and on.
DK>
DK> Rather than spending 1.5 minutes
DK> >finding out how to make a process re-read it's configuration they will
DK> >spend 3 minutes re-booting.
DK>
DK> Honestly, who worries about 1.5 minutes has a strange problem as i see
DK> it. It is what one wants, either work with software running on the
DK> system or administrate what the system does. To me both is a
DK> legitimate way.
Doesn't make both ways right, or both ways best for the hardware, or best
for effeciency.
DK> It is the same fight with what browser is the best, is it IE, Netscape,
DK> Opera, net+ or whatever it may be - to me they do all the same, they
DK> display websites.
But they intrepret and display html code differently. Some sites are
better with IE, some are better with Netscape. etc etc.
DK> Gee, some like rootbeer and some don't. You know what i mean ?
In the computer world, some like to drink Microsoft rootbeer and some like
to brew thier own. :)
Regards, Steve Youngs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ICQ: 34307457
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