On 16 September 2014 05:19, Julian Calaby <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Luc, > > On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Luc Verhaegen <[email protected]> wrote: >> On Mon, Sep 15, 2014 at 03:45:59PM +1000, Julian Calaby wrote: >>> Hi Luc, >>> >>> Let's start at the top. >>> >>> I, as somewhat of an outsider, see this community as being somewhat >>> hostile to new people, and you are one of the primary drivers of that >>> attitude. Your response below does nothing to change that opinion. I >>> don't pretend to be able to change your behaviour, but maybe if we set >>> up a framework for dealing with new people, we could work towards >>> making this community more inclusive or at least less hostile. >> >> Heh. >> >>> I proposed this for _DISCUSSION_ based upon my reading of the last >>> batch of new people who have tried to enter our community. Not based >>> upon one single person's experiences. >> >> You did not however go and investigate any of the proposals you made. >> You did not take anything else into account but a few NDH slammings on >> our ml. >> >> And instead of trying to help people directly, you decided to write that >> email and this one. > > I thought that by writing these emails, by trying to address the > problems I see in this community, I could potentially help people in > the future. > >>> > Oh really? >>> >>> You seem to place a very high value on not actually doing anything you >>> don't see as "valuable". I'm offering to make these changes so you >>> don't have to. All I'm expecting is some constructive discussion on my >>> points and an eventual "that sounds good". Nothing else. I'll happily >>> do all the work for this. >> >> I am a cynical bastard. I have been round the block way, way too often. >> When i read statements like that, i know that there is little real or >> little lasting that is going to happen. > > Fair enough. I know exactly how you feel. > >>> > Jason would have given up already after the third sentene, no, >>> > correction; third word. He ould then be silent for a day or two, >>> > perhapse a week, and then he would come back with a rephrase of his >>> > original question. >>> > >>> > You should look at Jason his first emails back in early august, and look >>> > at the whole history. >>> > >>> > Having said that, giving me a standard template that is nice and rosey >>> > and lulls people into thinking that we do not personally care at all >>> > anymore, is perhaps a good thing. It will make me a less easy target >>> > for our Forker and his subversion tactics. >>> >>> Personally, I find email conversations which are nothing more than: >>> >>> "Help me get Linux on my device" => "READ THE NDH" >>> >>> to be highly offensive. >>> >>> I'm proposing that the "READ THE NDH" part be replaced with something >>> that answers 90% of their general "how do I start here" questions. >>> I'll even send it if you'd like. >> >> And the new device howto is not, or should not be, the document that >> explains how to get started? > > It's not the content I'm complaining about, it's the delivery. > >> Our front page or device identification lead to the NDH quick enough. >> >> But... Given that people are already on irc or the ml, they should have >> seen our front page... >> >> And... By the time people get slammed with NDH, it is clear that they >> are on not previously documented hw. >> >> So really, in the cases that are referenced here, the answer to "where >> do i start" is "New_Device_howto". > > Agreed. Like I said above, my problem is with the delivery, not the content.
Indeed, I think it would be nice to be more polite to people who come looking for answers. It is tiring that people cannot read but it's unfortunately the reality. Also it could be in the IRC topic since it seems to be one of the IRC faqs. > >>> > I suggest that you go read our main page. >>> > >>> > The text there is terse and concise, it flows naturally into things, and >>> > very quickly mentions the new device howto by name. Putting a big nasty >>> > box on that front page is just going to scare more people off again, or >>> > lead to people refusing to read what actually matters. >>> >>> Yes, I agree that it is well written and explains the general stuff, >>> however the NDH link is buried in the third section down. >> >> It is far from buried. There is barely any text on that page. > > There's enough that it's skimmable. > I must agree that the current main page is terse enough. All the important information fits into the browser window on the ancient small monitor I use. It was not always that way and has greatly improved. Thanks Michal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "linux-sunxi" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
