The purpose is that the user of Log4j can be sure that the Logger is serializable.
On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: > But to what purpose? Does Log4j itself need this? Is this a case of YAGNI? > > If I have a Logger in an object I serialize, and the class implementing > Logger is serializable, then I am good to go. > > Making Logger Serializable, would make this obvious to users and might > make some developers warm and fuzzy. It just seems like an odd requirement > for ALL implementors of Loggers to be serializable. As a third party Logger > implementor, that does not mean it would be done properly. Implementing the > interface is no guarantee of proper behavior. > > Overall, it seems like it would make Log4j less friendly to 3rd party > implementors. Are there even any? > > Gary > > On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 9:07 AM, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.stal...@magine.com > > wrote: > >> But maybe we actually want to force all implementations to be >> serializable? >> >> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 6:01 PM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> I think the theory is it is preferable to let implementors of an >>> interface implement java.io.Serializable instead of letting the interface >>> extend java.io.Serializable. That gives future implementors the freedom to >>> choose to either implement Serializable or not. >>> >>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 12:49 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>> >>>> It seems like serializable logger is useful in Apache Spark, which is >>>> popular to use from Scala. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Do Scala programmers use Serializable a lot, or is there a better >>>>> mechanism there? Because if there's a more Scala way of doing it, that >>>>> would make more sense. Otherwise, you can always add Serializable later, >>>>> but you shouldn't remove it once it's part of the public API. >>>>> >>>>> On 25 July 2016 at 03:06, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.stal...@magine.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I am asking this since I'm considering making the Scala Logger >>>>>> wrapper Serializable. Would that be a good idea? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 10:00 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Users can rely on the fact that loggers are always Serializable. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I guess we could also document that fact if we don't want to mark >>>>>>> the interface Serializable. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Ralph Goers < >>>>>>> ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What advantage is gained by declaring the interface Serializable? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2016, at 9:38 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I don't think we should limit ourselves to what we add to the API >>>>>>>> just for the sake of alternative implementations. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Gary Gregory < >>>>>>>> garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I do not think you want to _force_ all implementation to be >>>>>>>>> serializable. Serialization is not a main feature of loggers, logging >>>>>>>>> is. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 12:45 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> But if this is a feature that is useful for some users, why not >>>>>>>>>> fully advertise it by making the Logger interface Serializable? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 7:53 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It's Serializable because there was a feature request for it. >>>>>>>>>>> The jira ticket is internal (reported by Gary), but I recall either >>>>>>>>>>> another >>>>>>>>>>> bug or a mailing list post where the justification was so that >>>>>>>>>>> serializable >>>>>>>>>>> classes can still use a Logger instance field (not everyone uses a >>>>>>>>>>> static >>>>>>>>>>> field for the Logger for some reason). >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 21 July 2016 at 11:32, Ralph Goers < >>>>>>>>>>> ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I asked myself the same question and I guess the answer is that >>>>>>>>>>>> Logger is included in lots of classes, many of which are >>>>>>>>>>>> Serializable. It >>>>>>>>>>>> would be easier for us to make AbstractLogger Serializable then >>>>>>>>>>>> for all the >>>>>>>>>>>> users to mark it as transient and have to manually instantiate the >>>>>>>>>>>> Logger >>>>>>>>>>>> during de-Serialization. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2016, at 9:29 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> So then why is AbstractLogger, and our implementation in >>>>>>>>>>>> log4j-core, Serializable? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 6:18 PM, Gary Gregory < >>>>>>>>>>>> garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not think there is a way to know what folks are doing out >>>>>>>>>>>>> there... >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are there any providers not using AbstractLogger? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Gary Gregory < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably to leave the decision on whether to support >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serialization to each provider. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2016 3:14 AM, "Mikael Ståldal" < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AbstractLogger is Serializable, but the Logger interface is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not. Why is it so? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In such case, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender by reply email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | >>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> message >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In >>>>>>>>>>>>>> such case, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender >>>>>>>>>>>>>> by reply email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | >>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in >>>>>>>>>>>> this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this >>>>>>>>>>>> message >>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), >>>>>>>>>>>> you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in >>>>>>>>>> this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), >>>>>>>>>> you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>>>>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you >>>>>>>> may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>>>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you >>>>>>> may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>> >>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>> >>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you >>>>>> may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >>>>>> email. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>> >>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>> Senior software developer >>>> >>>> *Magine TV* >>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>> >>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may >>>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >>>> email. >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> [image: MagineTV] >> >> *Mikael Ståldal* >> Senior software developer >> >> *Magine TV* >> mikael.stal...@magine.com >> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >> >> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may >> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >> email. >> > > > > -- > E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition > <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> > Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com > Home: http://garygregory.com/ > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory > -- [image: MagineTV] *Mikael Ståldal* Senior software developer *Magine TV* mikael.stal...@magine.com Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email.
