Wouldn't it also be kind of an evil thing to do by adding Serializable to Logger mid-2.x? That kind of decision seems to be an x.0 type of decision.
On 25 July 2016 at 11:55, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: > Roger that. I suppose that we could make that part of an epic and note > that Log4j's own implementations are fully supported (or not and which > ones). > > I'm still not convinced that this is a "good thing" at the interface level > because we could only document what each of our Logger implementations > support instead without "forcing" the interface on other 3rd party impls > (which I have no idea if there are any.) > > Gary > > On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 9:43 AM, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.stal...@magine.com > > wrote: > >> The purpose is that the user of Log4j can be sure that the Logger is >> serializable. >> >> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> But to what purpose? Does Log4j itself need this? Is this a case of >>> YAGNI? >>> >>> If I have a Logger in an object I serialize, and the class implementing >>> Logger is serializable, then I am good to go. >>> >>> Making Logger Serializable, would make this obvious to users and might >>> make some developers warm and fuzzy. It just seems like an odd requirement >>> for ALL implementors of Loggers to be serializable. As a third party Logger >>> implementor, that does not mean it would be done properly. Implementing the >>> interface is no guarantee of proper behavior. >>> >>> Overall, it seems like it would make Log4j less friendly to 3rd party >>> implementors. Are there even any? >>> >>> Gary >>> >>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 9:07 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>> >>>> But maybe we actually want to force all implementations to be >>>> serializable? >>>> >>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 6:01 PM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think the theory is it is preferable to let implementors of an >>>>> interface implement java.io.Serializable instead of letting the interface >>>>> extend java.io.Serializable. That gives future implementors the freedom to >>>>> choose to either implement Serializable or not. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 12:49 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> It seems like serializable logger is useful in Apache Spark, which is >>>>>> popular to use from Scala. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Do Scala programmers use Serializable a lot, or is there a better >>>>>>> mechanism there? Because if there's a more Scala way of doing it, that >>>>>>> would make more sense. Otherwise, you can always add Serializable later, >>>>>>> but you shouldn't remove it once it's part of the public API. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 25 July 2016 at 03:06, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.stal...@magine.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I am asking this since I'm considering making the Scala Logger >>>>>>>> wrapper Serializable. Would that be a good idea? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 25, 2016 at 10:00 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Users can rely on the fact that loggers are always Serializable. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I guess we could also document that fact if we don't want to mark >>>>>>>>> the interface Serializable. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Ralph Goers < >>>>>>>>> ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What advantage is gained by declaring the interface Serializable? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2016, at 9:38 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I don't think we should limit ourselves to what we add to the API >>>>>>>>>> just for the sake of alternative implementations. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Gary Gregory < >>>>>>>>>> garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I do not think you want to _force_ all implementation to be >>>>>>>>>>> serializable. Serialization is not a main feature of loggers, >>>>>>>>>>> logging is. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jul 22, 2016 at 12:45 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> But if this is a feature that is useful for some users, why not >>>>>>>>>>>> fully advertise it by making the Logger interface Serializable? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 7:53 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> It's Serializable because there was a feature request for it. >>>>>>>>>>>>> The jira ticket is internal (reported by Gary), but I recall >>>>>>>>>>>>> either another >>>>>>>>>>>>> bug or a mailing list post where the justification was so that >>>>>>>>>>>>> serializable >>>>>>>>>>>>> classes can still use a Logger instance field (not everyone uses >>>>>>>>>>>>> a static >>>>>>>>>>>>> field for the Logger for some reason). >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 21 July 2016 at 11:32, Ralph Goers < >>>>>>>>>>>>> ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I asked myself the same question and I guess the answer is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that Logger is included in lots of classes, many of which are >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serializable. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> It would be easier for us to make AbstractLogger Serializable >>>>>>>>>>>>>> then for all >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the users to mark it as transient and have to manually >>>>>>>>>>>>>> instantiate the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Logger during de-Serialization. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2016, at 9:29 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So then why is AbstractLogger, and our implementation in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> log4j-core, Serializable? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 6:18 PM, Gary Gregory < >>>>>>>>>>>>>> garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I do not think there is a way to know what folks are doing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out there... >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 9:13 AM, Mikael Ståldal < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Are there any providers not using AbstractLogger? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 6:09 PM, Gary Gregory < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Probably to leave the decision on whether to support >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> serialization to each provider. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 21, 2016 3:14 AM, "Mikael Ståldal" < >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AbstractLogger is Serializable, but the Logger interface >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is not. Why is it so? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contained in this message. If you are not the addressee >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> indicated in this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In such case, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sender by reply email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in this message. 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If you are not the addressee indicated in this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> message >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> person), you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In >>>>>>>>>>>>>> such case, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender >>>>>>>>>>>>>> by reply email. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | >>>>>>>>>>>> www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in >>>>>>>>>>>> this message. 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In such case, >>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in >>>>>>>>>> this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), >>>>>>>>>> you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in >>>>>>>>> this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you >>>>>>>>> may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>>>>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you >>>>>>>> may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>> >>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>> >>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you >>>>>> may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >>>>>> email. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>> >>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>> Senior software developer >>>> >>>> *Magine TV* >>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>> >>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may >>>> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >>>> email. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> [image: MagineTV] >> >> *Mikael Ståldal* >> Senior software developer >> >> *Magine TV* >> mikael.stal...@magine.com >> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >> >> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may >> not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply >> email. >> > > > > -- > E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition > <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> > Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com > Home: http://garygregory.com/ > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory > -- Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com>
