And I get the feeling that most people that do not like apple products don't for other reasons, not necessary the quality of the actual finished product. I wouldn't buy a crappy product because the company that makes it gives lots to charity, though I think they should give back more to the community.
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Victor van Reijswoud Sent: 29 July 2011 09:00 PM To: Uganda Linux User Group Subject: Re: [LUG] [OT] Android dirty little secret: Shipping #s strong, returns 30 - 40% Hmmmmmm. I get the feeling that I heard this story before. It may have been around 10-15 years ago when the MS 'fan boys' were trying to justify their choices to the upcoming open source and linux advocates. MS (Gates) since then has tried to take social responsibility. Apple hasn't shown anything. Where is Apple in the poverty alleviation? Where is Apple in disaster relief? Where is Apple in offering affordable computing and phones for the poor. Have I missed something? Where is Apple when it comes down to freedom and free software, affordable access to information etc. Here I also may have missed something. I respect every-bodies values, desires and decisions. Personally, I really have serious doubts whether the Apple bet is going contribute to a better world. Although an early Mac adopter (got my first Apple in 1991), I find it more and more difficult to support their corporate philosophy (point stressed by the fact Apple has more cash than the US government (http://mashable.com/2011/07/29/apple-cash-u-s-government/?utm_source=feedbu rner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Mashable+%28Mashable%29) but fail to support society with it) and have stopped buying their products. Looking for good alternatives. V On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 7:32 PM, Paul Bagyenda <[email protected]> wrote: > I don't know... Everybody weighs their options based on their values > and desires. And we welcome businessmen bearing gifts precisely > because we weigh options. If you were to go full purist, there'd > hardly be any open source software worth enjoying. (See GNU Hurd for a > purist case that went nowhere.) > > Android is being pushed for commercial reasons, just as iOS is being > pushed for commercial reasons. As is Ubuntu. And SuSE. In all cases > you, dear user, will sacrifice some freedom. (Just see the latest > outrage over the Google+ requirement for real names, and how it's > affected one or two Android users.) > > These companies make huge contributions to (and use) open source, precisely because it helps them make money. Making money means you need to choke freedom. A little. Personally I can live with that. I accept that at all times I must make an assessment of my options, and give a little where I must. There will be no absolutes. > > Lastly, lets be fair. iOS is not just a matter of marketing. Anyone who has used their devices will surely accept that they put a lot of time into the user experience. And Android is catching up very fast. > > P. > > > > On Jul 29, 2011, at 09:11, Victor van Reijswoud wrote: > >> No Tim, you are not alone! >> >> It surprises me that the so many people on this list sacrifice >> freedom for design and are blinded by the marketing power of Apple. >> Behind this all I just see an evil trend that is inspired by mere greed. >> >> I tried to raise this issue some time ago on this list. >> >> V >> >> >> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Tim Schofield <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Well I haven't, and never would buy an apple device, so I can't say >>> which is faster. >>> >>> I have been a Free software advocate and user for many years, and >>> believe strongly in the principles of Free software. Where there is >>> a choice between a Free software option and a proprietary one, as in >>> the case of phones, I will always go for the Free software option. >>> >>> Somebody mentioned the speed at which android is improving, and this >>> is one of the great strengths of Free software. The only thing that >>> keeps people buying apples products is the superb marketing ability >>> they have. Somebody else mentioned that even though they couldn't >>> make phone calls from their phone except when held in a certain way, >>> that their phone was "super cool". This has been the main thrust of >>> apples marketing for nearly 30 years. "Owning an apple device makes >>> you cooler and sexier than owners of other devices". It works >>> brilliantly as shown by their profits. >>> >>> My biggest surprise was finding myself being the lone supporter of >>> Linux devices on a LUG mailing list. First time I have ever >>> experienced that. >>> >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> On 29 July 2011 13:01, Paul Bagyenda <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> And yet overall the IOS user experience is, in my limited >>>> experience, better. This guy provides some additional insight: >>>> http://codingrelic.geekhold.com/2008/11/six-million-dollar-libc.htm >>>> l On Jul 29, 2011, at 07:33, Tim Schofield wrote: >>>> >>>>> They didn't develop it from scratch, its derived from the BSD C >>>>> library. It has a much smaller footprint than the gnu library, and >>>>> is designed for cpu's that run at slower speeds, making it much >>>>> better for mobile devices than the GNU library that ios uses. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 29 July 2011 12:27, Paul Bagyenda <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> I am duly educated again, for which I am grateful! Still, developing their own libc must surely have had to do with licensing? >>>>>> >>>>>> Since I do not own an iPhone or iPad I suppose I may escape the "fan boy" tag. Computers have to work well. And I suppose after a while one stops caring about the wars... >>>>>> >>>>>> On the server side, Linux forever. On the PC/laptop side, SJ wins (though I've seen Ubuntu installs lately that look and work pretty well). Android vs iPhone, the latter seems to me slightly ahead, but then the speed at which Android has improved is truly impressive. >>>>>> >>>>>> A Linux use since kernel version 0.9! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 29, 2011, at 06:48, Tim Schofield wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes but bionic libc is open source, which is not really lock down is it? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What have all you apple fan boys got against Linux?? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Come over to open source guys, once you've tried it you will >>>>>>> never want to go back :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 29 July 2011 11:42, Paul Bagyenda <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> I had doubted you re GNU libc not being included in Android. >>>>>>>> But it appears you are right: >>>>>>>> http://thoth.eng.temple.edu/?p=139 >>>>>>>> That is a lot of work to do to avoid publishing the source code! Even famous-for-lock-down Apple includes GNU libc. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> P. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jul 29, 2011, at 01:59, Dan Carpenter wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Android only uses the Linux kernel. They threw out everything >>>>>>>>> else about linux, like the gnu C library and every linux >>>>>>>>> program. They wrote their own replacements for that which are >>>>>>>>> licensed under the Apache license. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The Apache license doesn't require people to pass along the software. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The most recent version of Android, Honeycomb, was announced >>>>>>>>> in May this year. It's not used on phones, only on tablets. >>>>>>>>> Google is not going to release the source for it. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Google is going to release the source for the next version >>>>>>>>> "Ice Cream Sandwich" which merges the phone and the tablet >>>>>>>>> software. It's going to be released later this year. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But for all the Android products, they do have to share the >>>>>>>>> kernel sourse. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>> dan carpenter >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>>>>> [email protected] Mailing list archives: >>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in any way. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>>>> [email protected] Mailing list archives: >>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in any way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> WebERP Africa Ltd >>>>>>> +447710427049 >>>>>>> +256752963327 >>>>>>> +255758554413 >>>>>>> www.weberpafrica.com >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>>> [email protected] Mailing list archives: >>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in any way. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>> >>>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>> [email protected] Mailing list archives: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>> >>>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>> >>>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in any way. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> WebERP Africa Ltd >>>>> +447710427049 >>>>> +256752963327 >>>>> +255758554413 >>>>> www.weberpafrica.com >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>> >>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>> [email protected] Mailing list archives: >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>> >>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>> >>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in any way. >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>> >>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>> [email protected] Mailing list archives: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>> >>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>> >>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in any way. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> WebERP Africa Ltd >>> +447710427049 >>> +256752963327 >>> +255758554413 >>> www.weberpafrica.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>> >>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>> [email protected] Mailing list archives: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>> >>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>> >>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in any way. >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >> >> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >> [email protected] Mailing list archives: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >> >> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >> >> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in any way. >> > > _______________________________________________ > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug > > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: > [email protected] Mailing list archives: > http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug > > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: > http://www.infocom.co.ug/ > > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in any way. > _______________________________________________ The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: [email protected] Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: http://www.infocom.co.ug/ The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in any way. _______________________________________________ The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: [email protected] Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: http://www.infocom.co.ug/ The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in any way.
