+1 Prof
Sent from my iPhone On Jul 29, 2011, at 1:59 PM, Victor van Reijswoud <[email protected]> wrote: > Hmmmmmm. I get the feeling that I heard this story before. It may have > been around 10-15 years ago when the MS 'fan boys' were trying to > justify their choices to the upcoming open source and linux advocates. > > MS (Gates) since then has tried to take social responsibility. Apple > hasn't shown anything. Where is Apple in the poverty alleviation? > Where is Apple in disaster relief? Where is Apple in offering > affordable computing and phones for the poor. Have I missed something? > > Where is Apple when it comes down to freedom and free software, > affordable access to information etc. Here I also may have missed > something. > > I respect every-bodies values, desires and decisions. Personally, I > really have serious doubts whether the Apple bet is going contribute > to a better world. Although an early Mac adopter (got my first Apple > in 1991), I find it more and more difficult to support their corporate > philosophy (point stressed by the fact Apple has more cash than the US > government > (http://mashable.com/2011/07/29/apple-cash-u-s-government/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Mashable+%28Mashable%29) > but fail to support society with it) and have stopped buying their > products. Looking for good alternatives. > > V > > On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 7:32 PM, Paul Bagyenda <[email protected]> wrote: >> I don't know... Everybody weighs their options based on their values and >> desires. And we welcome businessmen bearing gifts precisely because we >> weigh options. If you were to go full purist, there'd hardly be any open >> source software worth enjoying. (See GNU Hurd for a purist case that went >> nowhere.) >> >> Android is being pushed for commercial reasons, just as iOS is being pushed >> for commercial reasons. As is Ubuntu. And SuSE. In all cases you, dear user, >> will sacrifice some freedom. (Just see the latest outrage over the Google+ >> requirement for real names, and how it's affected one or two Android users.) >> >> These companies make huge contributions to (and use) open source, precisely >> because it helps them make money. Making money means you need to choke >> freedom. A little. Personally I can live with that. I accept that at all >> times I must make an assessment of my options, and give a little where I >> must. There will be no absolutes. >> >> Lastly, lets be fair. iOS is not just a matter of marketing. Anyone who has >> used their devices will surely accept that they put a lot of time into the >> user experience. And Android is catching up very fast. >> >> P. >> >> >> >> On Jul 29, 2011, at 09:11, Victor van Reijswoud wrote: >> >>> No Tim, you are not alone! >>> >>> It surprises me that the so many people on this list sacrifice freedom >>> for design and are blinded by the marketing power of Apple. Behind >>> this all I just see an evil trend that is inspired by mere greed. >>> >>> I tried to raise this issue some time ago on this list. >>> >>> V >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Jul 29, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Tim Schofield <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>>> Well I haven't, and never would buy an apple device, so I can't say >>>> which is faster. >>>> >>>> I have been a Free software advocate and user for many years, and >>>> believe strongly in the principles of Free software. Where there is a >>>> choice between a Free software option and a proprietary one, as in the >>>> case of phones, I will always go for the Free software option. >>>> >>>> Somebody mentioned the speed at which android is improving, and this >>>> is one of the great strengths of Free software. The only thing that >>>> keeps people buying apples products is the superb marketing ability >>>> they have. Somebody else mentioned that even though they couldn't make >>>> phone calls from their phone except when held in a certain way, that >>>> their phone was "super cool". This has been the main thrust of apples >>>> marketing for nearly 30 years. "Owning an apple device makes you >>>> cooler and sexier than owners of other devices". It works brilliantly >>>> as shown by their profits. >>>> >>>> My biggest surprise was finding myself being the lone supporter of >>>> Linux devices on a LUG mailing list. First time I have ever >>>> experienced that. >>>> >>>> Tim >>>> >>>> >>>> On 29 July 2011 13:01, Paul Bagyenda <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> And yet overall the IOS user experience is, in my limited experience, >>>>> better. This guy provides some additional insight: >>>>> http://codingrelic.geekhold.com/2008/11/six-million-dollar-libc.html >>>>> On Jul 29, 2011, at 07:33, Tim Schofield wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> They didn't develop it from scratch, its derived from the BSD C >>>>>> library. It has a much smaller footprint than the gnu library, and is >>>>>> designed for cpu's that run at slower speeds, making it much better >>>>>> for mobile devices than the GNU library that ios uses. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 29 July 2011 12:27, Paul Bagyenda <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> I am duly educated again, for which I am grateful! Still, developing >>>>>>> their own libc must surely have had to do with licensing? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Since I do not own an iPhone or iPad I suppose I may escape the "fan >>>>>>> boy" tag. Computers have to work well. And I suppose after a while one >>>>>>> stops caring about the wars... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On the server side, Linux forever. On the PC/laptop side, SJ wins >>>>>>> (though I've seen Ubuntu installs lately that look and work pretty >>>>>>> well). Android vs iPhone, the latter seems to me slightly ahead, but >>>>>>> then the speed at which Android has improved is truly impressive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A Linux use since kernel version 0.9! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jul 29, 2011, at 06:48, Tim Schofield wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes but bionic libc is open source, which is not really lock down is >>>>>>>> it? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What have all you apple fan boys got against Linux?? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Come over to open source guys, once you've tried it you will never >>>>>>>> want to go back :-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 29 July 2011 11:42, Paul Bagyenda <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> I had doubted you re GNU libc not being included in Android. But it >>>>>>>>> appears you are right: http://thoth.eng.temple.edu/?p=139 >>>>>>>>> That is a lot of work to do to avoid publishing the source code! Even >>>>>>>>> famous-for-lock-down Apple includes GNU libc. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> P. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Jul 29, 2011, at 01:59, Dan Carpenter wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Android only uses the Linux kernel. They threw out everything else >>>>>>>>>> about linux, like the gnu C library and every linux program. They >>>>>>>>>> wrote their own replacements for that which are licensed under the >>>>>>>>>> Apache license. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The Apache license doesn't require people to pass along the software. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The most recent version of Android, Honeycomb, was announced in May >>>>>>>>>> this year. It's not used on phones, only on tablets. Google is not >>>>>>>>>> going to release the source for it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Google is going to release the source for the next version "Ice >>>>>>>>>> Cream Sandwich" which merges the phone and the tablet software. It's >>>>>>>>>> going to be released later this year. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> But for all the Android products, they do have to share the kernel >>>>>>>>>> sourse. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> regards, >>>>>>>>>> dan carpenter >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them >>>>>>>>>> (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not >>>>>>>>>> responsible for them in any way. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them >>>>>>>>> (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not >>>>>>>>> responsible for them in any way. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> WebERP Africa Ltd >>>>>>>> +447710427049 >>>>>>>> +256752963327 >>>>>>>> +255758554413 >>>>>>>> www.weberpafrica.com >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them >>>>>>>> (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not >>>>>>>> responsible for them in any way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including >>>>>>> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them >>>>>>> in any way. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> WebERP Africa Ltd >>>>>> +447710427049 >>>>>> +256752963327 >>>>>> +255758554413 >>>>>> www.weberpafrica.com >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>>> >>>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>>> >>>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>>> >>>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including >>>>>> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them >>>>>> in any way. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>>> >>>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>>> >>>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>>> >>>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including >>>>> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in >>>>> any way. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> WebERP Africa Ltd >>>> +447710427049 >>>> +256752963327 >>>> +255758554413 >>>> www.weberpafrica.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>>> >>>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >>>> [email protected] >>>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>>> >>>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>>> >>>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including >>>> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in >>>> any way. >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >>> >>> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: [email protected] >>> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >>> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >>> >>> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >>> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >>> >>> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including >>> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in >>> any way. >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >> >> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: [email protected] >> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >> >> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >> >> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including >> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in >> any way. >> > _______________________________________________ > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug > > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: [email protected] > Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug > > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: > http://www.infocom.co.ug/ > > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including > attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in any > way. _______________________________________________ The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: [email protected] Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: http://www.infocom.co.ug/ The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in any way.
