[LUTE] Re: Vivaldi lute concerto

Tue, 11 Oct 2016 09:33:30 -0700 

   Not true!
    "Segovian usually means unmusical, sloppy, irritating etc." for his
   solo playing, but when he played with an ensemble, he was forced to be
   disciplined and musical, like it or not. Just listen to his recordings
   of Rodrigo's Fantasia para un Gentlehombre, Ponce's Concerto del Sur,
   and Castelnuovo-Tedesco's Guitar Quintet.
   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

   On Oct 11, 2016, at 2:46 AM, Roman Turovsky <[1][email protected]>
   wrote:

   There is really nothing Segovian about it.
   A Segovian usually means unmusical, sloppy, irritating etc.
   RT
   On 10/11/2016 5:09 AM, Diego Cantalupi wrote:

     The question is different:
     why one should play a baroque lute concerto on a lute-shaped guitar
     using an old fashon Segovian style?
     Il 11/10/2016 10:47, Jarosław Lipski ha scritto:

     On 11 Oct 2016, at 01:37, Roman Turovsky <[2][email protected]>
     wrote:
     Not really. There are a lot of factors in LF manufacture that are
     absent is this.
     Many people play single-strung archlutes with nails, some without.
     Stephen Stubbs with, Konrad Junghaenel and Konstantin Bozhinov
     without.
     RT

     Sure, I am not criticising anyone. On the contrary, I said Luca's
     performance was very successful. On the other hand one may ask
     questions like: why someone plays single strung archlute if there is
     little evidence for this type of instrument, why someone uses
     fingernails if the evidence speaks against using them, and why
     someone uses amplification (Noble prize for someone who'll find any
     evidence for this :)) And if all of this is used simultaneously,
     then
     one may assume it is not coincidental. Why? Because it is much more
     guitar-like, and most of lute players started their musical
     education
     as guitarists. Another problem is the fear of not being heard by an
     audience especially when playing in a group .
     Again, I am not criticising, however it should be pointed out that
     there are 2 ways of looking at authenticity IMHO, and someone who
     has
     no experience in early music may feel a little bit confused.
     Best
     JL

     On 10/10/2016 5:33 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

     Name it as you like, for me it’s a Liuto forte. There is another
     version of RV93 played by Luca here
     [3]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.
     com_watch-3Fv-3DJB101T-5FsVog&d=CwIFaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41
     FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P9
     QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=lQHWwhXbLLNcN7YENyhOJtBTy
     y2JO7IH-yDcK3vPB6U&e=
     <[4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube
     .com_watch-3Fv-3DJB101T-5FsVog&d=CwIFaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz4
     1FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P
     9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=lQHWwhXbLLNcN7YENyhOJtBT
     yy2JO7IH-yDcK3vPB6U&e= >
     The whole instrument is single strung again, and the evidence for
     this type of archlute stringing is very scarce as Howard rightly
     noticed. Luca uses fingernails, so this is another factor that
     influences the overall sound (not only mics).
     JL

     On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:28, Roman Turovsky <[5][email protected]>
     wrote:
     on a good authority of RT.
     Luca has at least 2 of these, one with a much longer extension.
     RT
     On 10/10/2016 4:16 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

     Really? Is there any evidence to support this theory?
     JL

     On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:15, Roman Turovsky <[6][email protected]>
     wrote:
     It is certainly NOT a liuto-forte, but a single-strung archlute
     by Luc Breton.
     RT
     On 10/10/2016 2:06 PM, Jarosław Lipski wrote:

     The instrument in question is not an archlute or liuto
     attiorbato, but a liuto forte. Some lute players like Luca
     Pianca, Luciano Contini, Eric Bellocq and many others use it,
     however I would be far from saying that this is a historical
     instrument - see here
     [7]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__liuto-2Dforte
     .com_ueb-5F00-5Fen.html&d=CwIFaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZF
     k4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P9QDlxbO
     gfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=JQXm-pLZcbeuLRxq6AoMwiz59QL9UAt
     sertUf4NRHJ0&e=
     <[8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__liuto-2Dfort
     e.com_ueb-5F00-5Fen.html&d=CwIFaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZ
     Fk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P9QDlxb
     OgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=JQXm-pLZcbeuLRxq6AoMwiz59QL9UA
     tsertUf4NRHJ0&e= > It’s easier to
     play and was specially created with guitarists in mind.
     Also Lucas fingering in Vivaldi isn’t really Baroque.
     Having said that, his performance from musical point of view
     was successful, and I am glad to see people talking about music
     on this list :)
     Best

     On 10 Oct 2016, at 18:23, howard posner
     <[9][email protected]> wrote:

     On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Diego Cantalupi
     <[10][email protected]> wrote:
     The main problem to me, is that the concerto is played in C,
     and not. in D.
     It's easier on a G archlute, but sounds to me very strange
     for the violins.

     Luca plays an archlute/liuto attiorbato in A.  I believe
     Giardino Armonico plays at A 415. I’m guessing the
     pitch is lowered on the Youtube video we’re talking
     about.  This is commonly done to avoid detection by copyright
     bots.
     Here’s a recording of Giardino and Luca doing the same
     concerto, sounding in D at A 415:
     [11]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube
     .com_watch-3Fv-3Da0kJwhbZcAM&d=CwIFaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41F
     qQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P9Q
     DlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=1ikf4C-FyzzjfJs3S5NYAwIh_f
     px7XqXVWoJA4G-sf8&e=
     Of course, it’s possible that the sound is adjusted up
     on this one.
     To get on or off this list see list information at
     [12]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartm
     outh.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=CwIFaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyG
     qyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-
     LNEQ&m=3P9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=Jo_DuhCCd6cGncU
     CsgBgpBFvbr_J0xEc3ZK1ytPnNIg&e=

     --

     --

References

   1. mailto:[email protected]
   2. mailto:[email protected]
   3. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DJB101T-5FsVog&d=CwIFaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=lQHWwhXbLLNcN7YENyhOJtBTyy2JO7IH-yDcK3vPB6U&e=
   4. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DJB101T-5FsVog&d=CwIFaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=lQHWwhXbLLNcN7YENyhOJtBTyy2JO7IH-yDcK3vPB6U&e=
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   7. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__liuto-2Dforte.com_ueb-5F00-5Fen.html&d=CwIFaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=JQXm-pLZcbeuLRxq6AoMwiz59QL9UAtsertUf4NRHJ0&e=
   8. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__liuto-2Dforte.com_ueb-5F00-5Fen.html&d=CwIFaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=JQXm-pLZcbeuLRxq6AoMwiz59QL9UAtsertUf4NRHJ0&e=
   9. mailto:[email protected]
  10. mailto:[email protected]
  11. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3Da0kJwhbZcAM&d=CwIFaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=1ikf4C-FyzzjfJs3S5NYAwIh_fpx7XqXVWoJA4G-sf8&e=
  12. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=CwIFaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=Jo_DuhCCd6cGncUCsgBgpBFvbr_J0xEc3ZK1ytPnNIg&e=

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