I agree with John, I'd probably take that a little further as I am a
big fan of Segovia, but lets leave it at that. Segovia was entirely
capable of playing rhythmically precise when he was in an ensemble. I
wish some of that carried over to his solo playing, but it was a
different time.
I am with the camp that prefers an inherently musical interpretation to
a necessarily historically accurate one, if you can do both, so much
the better!
On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 12:23 PM, John Mardinly
<[1]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:
Not true!
"Segovian usually means unmusical, sloppy, irritating etc." for
his
solo playing, but when he played with an ensemble, he was forced
to be
disciplined and musical, like it or not. Just listen to his
recordings
of Rodrigo's Fantasia para un Gentlehombre, Ponce's Concerto del
Sur,
and Castelnuovo-Tedesco's Guitar Quintet.
A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
On Oct 11, 2016, at 2:46 AM, Roman Turovsky
<[1][2]r.turov...@gmail.com>
wrote:
There is really nothing Segovian about it.
A Segovian usually means unmusical, sloppy, irritating etc.
RT
On 10/11/2016 5:09 AM, Diego Cantalupi wrote:
The question is different:
why one should play a baroque lute concerto on a lute-shaped
guitar
using an old fashon Segovian style?
Il 11/10/2016 10:47, JarosÃ
aw Lipski ha scritto:
On 11 Oct 2016, at 01:37, Roman Turovsky
<[2][3]r.turov...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Not really. There are a lot of factors in LF manufacture that
are
absent is this.
Many people play single-strung archlutes with nails, some
without.
Stephen Stubbs with, Konrad Junghaenel and Konstantin Bozhinov
without.
RT
Sure, I am not criticising anyone. On the contrary, I said
Luca's
performance was very successful. On the other hand one may ask
questions like: why someone plays single strung archlute if
there is
little evidence for this type of instrument, why someone uses
fingernails if the evidence speaks against using them, and why
someone uses amplification (Noble prize for someone who'll find
any
evidence for this :)) And if all of this is used
simultaneously,
then
one may assume it is not coincidental. Why? Because it is much
more
guitar-like, and most of lute players started their musical
education
as guitarists. Another problem is the fear of not being heard
by an
audience especially when playing in a group .
Again, I am not criticising, however it should be pointed out
that
there are 2 ways of looking at authenticity IMHO, and someone
who
has
no experience in early music may feel a little bit confused.
Best
JL
On 10/10/2016 5:33 PM, JarosÃ
aw Lipski wrote:
Name it as you like, for me itââ¬â¢s a Liuto forte. There is
another
version of RV93 played by Luca here
[3][4]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
3A__www.youtube.
com_watch-3Fv-3DJB101T-5FsVog&d=CwIFaQ&c=
AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41
FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3N
w-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P9
QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=
lQHWwhXbLLNcN7YENyhOJtBTy
y2JO7IH-yDcK3vPB6U&e=
<[4][5]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
3A__www.youtube
.com_watch-3Fv-3DJB101T-5FsVog&d=CwIFaQ&c=
AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz4
1FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3N
w-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P
9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=
lQHWwhXbLLNcN7YENyhOJtBT
yy2JO7IH-yDcK3vPB6U&e= >
The whole instrument is single strung again, and the evidence
for
this type of archlute stringing is very scarce as Howard
rightly
noticed. Luca uses fingernails, so this is another factor that
influences the overall sound (not only mics).
JL
On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:28, Roman Turovsky
<[5][6]r.turov...@gmail.com>
wrote:
on a good authority of RT.
Luca has at least 2 of these, one with a much longer extension.
RT
On 10/10/2016 4:16 PM, JarosÃâaw Lipski wrote:
Really? Is there any evidence to support this theory?
JL
On 10 Oct 2016, at 22:15, Roman Turovsky
<[6][7]r.turov...@gmail.com>
wrote:
It is certainly NOT a liuto-forte, but a single-strung archlute
by Luc Breton.
RT
On 10/10/2016 2:06 PM, JarosÃâaw Lipski wrote:
The instrument in question is not an archlute or liuto
attiorbato, but a liuto forte. Some lute players like Luca
Pianca, Luciano Contini, Eric Bellocq and many others use it,
however I would be far from saying that this is a historical
instrument - see here
[7][8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-
3A__liuto-2Dforte
.com_ueb-5F00-5Fen.html&d=CwIFaQ&c=
AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZF
k4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3N
w-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P9QDlxbO
gfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=JQXm-
pLZcbeuLRxq6AoMwiz59QL9UAt
sertUf4NRHJ0&e=
<[8][9]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-
3A__liuto-2Dfort
e.com_ueb-5F00-5Fen.html&d=CwIFaQ&c=
AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZ
Fk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3N
w-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P9QDlxb
OgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=JQXm-
pLZcbeuLRxq6AoMwiz59QL9UA
tsertUf4NRHJ0&e= > Ità ¢Ã¢â ¬Ã¢â ¢s easier to
play and was specially created with guitarists in mind.
Also Lucas fingering in Vivaldi isnà ¢Ã¢â ¬Ã¢â ¢t really
Baroque.
Having said that, his performance from musical point of view
was successful, and I am glad to see people talking about music
on this list :)
Best
On 10 Oct 2016, at 18:23, howard posner
<[9][10]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
On Oct 10, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Diego Cantalupi
<[10][11]tio...@gmail.com> wrote:
The main problem to me, is that the concerto is played in C,
and not. in D.
It's easier on a G archlute, but sounds to me very strange
for the violins.
Luca plays an archlute/liuto attiorbato in A. I believe
Giardino Armonico plays at A 415. Ià ¢Ã¢â ¬Ã¢â ¢m guessing
the
pitch is lowered on the Youtube video weà ¢Ã¢â ¬Ã¢â ¢re
talking
about. This is commonly done to avoid detection by copyright
bots.
Hereà ¢Ã¢â ¬Ã¢â ¢s a recording of Giardino and Luca doing
the
same
concerto, sounding in D at A 415:
[11][12]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-
3A__www.youtube
.com_watch-3Fv-3Da0kJwhbZcAM&d=CwIFaQ&c=
AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41F
qQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3N
w-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P9Q
DlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=1ikf4C-
FyzzjfJs3S5NYAwIh_f
px7XqXVWoJA4G-sf8&e=
Of course, ità ¢Ã¢â ¬Ã¢â ¢s possible that the sound is
adjusted
up
on this one.
To get on or off this list see list information at
[12][13]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-
3A__www.cs.dartm
outh.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=CwIFaQ&c=
AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyG
qyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3N
w-61ygSK-
LNEQ&m=3P9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=Jo_
DuhCCd6cGncU
CsgBgpBFvbr_J0xEc3ZK1ytPnNIg&e=
--
--
References
1. mailto:[14]r.turov...@gmail.com
2. mailto:[15]r.turov...@gmail.com
3. [16]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.
youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DJB101T-5FsVog&d=CwIFaQ&c=
AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=
MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=
3P9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=
lQHWwhXbLLNcN7YENyhOJtBTyy2JO7IH-yDcK3vPB6U&e=
4. [17]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.
youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DJB101T-5FsVog&d=CwIFaQ&c=
AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=
MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=
3P9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=
lQHWwhXbLLNcN7YENyhOJtBTyy2JO7IH-yDcK3vPB6U&e=
5. mailto:[18]r.turov...@gmail.com
6. mailto:[19]r.turov...@gmail.com
7. [20]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__liuto-
2Dforte.com_ueb-5F00-5Fen.html&d=CwIFaQ&c=
AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=
MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=
3P9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=JQXm-
pLZcbeuLRxq6AoMwiz59QL9UAtsertUf4NRHJ0&e=
8. [21]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__liuto-
2Dforte.com_ueb-5F00-5Fen.html&d=CwIFaQ&c=
AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=
MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=
3P9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=JQXm-
pLZcbeuLRxq6AoMwiz59QL9UAtsertUf4NRHJ0&e=
9. mailto:[22]howardpos...@ca.rr.com
10. mailto:[23]tio...@gmail.com
11. [24]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.
youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3Da0kJwhbZcAM&d=CwIFaQ&c=
AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=
MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=
3P9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=1ikf4C-
FyzzjfJs3S5NYAwIh_fpx7XqXVWoJA4G-sf8&e=
12. [25]https://urldefense.proofpoint.
com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-
2Dadmin_index.html&d=CwIFaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQ
uZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=
3P9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=Jo_
DuhCCd6cGncUCsgBgpBFvbr_J0xEc3ZK1ytPnNIg&e=
--
References
1. mailto:john.mardi...@asu.edu
2. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
3. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
4. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube
5. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube
6. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
7. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
8. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__liuto-2Dforte
9. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__liuto-2Dfort
10. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
11. mailto:tio...@gmail.com
12. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube
13. https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartm
14. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
15. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
16.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DJB101T-5FsVog&d=CwIFaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=lQHWwhXbLLNcN7YENyhOJtBTyy2JO7IH-yDcK3vPB6U&e=
17.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3DJB101T-5FsVog&d=CwIFaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=lQHWwhXbLLNcN7YENyhOJtBTyy2JO7IH-yDcK3vPB6U&e=
18. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
19. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
20.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__liuto-2Dforte.com_ueb-5F00-5Fen.html&d=CwIFaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=JQXm-pLZcbeuLRxq6AoMwiz59QL9UAtsertUf4NRHJ0&e=
21.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__liuto-2Dforte.com_ueb-5F00-5Fen.html&d=CwIFaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=JQXm-pLZcbeuLRxq6AoMwiz59QL9UAtsertUf4NRHJ0&e=
22. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
23. mailto:tio...@gmail.com
24.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.youtube.com_watch-3Fv-3Da0kJwhbZcAM&d=CwIFaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=1ikf4C-FyzzjfJs3S5NYAwIh_fpx7XqXVWoJA4G-sf8&e=
25.
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html&d=CwIFaQ&c=AGbYxfJbXK67KfXyGqyv2Ejiz41FqQuZFk4A-1IxfAU&r=MAuGvnWTcVQkxORgQD0QS50ZicPM3Nw-61ygSK-LNEQ&m=3P9QDlxbOgfZVomqcWiWBRDUwIPP4rko1mGvuO7pas0&s=Jo_DuhCCd6cGncUCsgBgpBFvbr_J0xEc3ZK1ytPnNIg&e=
