2017-07-30 19:13 GMT+02:00 Dr Eberhard Lisse <nos...@lisse.na>:

> Roberto,
> If you use dropbox, can't you just put ALL the files there and edit
> from there?
> I am using a Mac and I can open and save files from LyX on the dropbox
> directories, including generating the PDF, so I am sure something
> similar will work on Windoze.
> I would them use Version Control and make sure your collaborators use
> that when editing their files.
>         https://wiki.lyx.org/LyX/VersionControlInstallationAndUsage
> Now that you mention it, my mother, 23 years ago, at 64, never having
> touched a computer before, figured out how to use UUPC and MicroEmacs
> on DOS, so she could email me in Namibia :-)-O.
> For full disclosure I must confess that I wrote her a wrapper script
> (3000 lines BAT :-)-O), bought her the modem (1200/2400 baud and I
> think at that stage still illegal in Germany) and set up her uucp
> neighbor.
> To ask for a rewrite because (presumably academic) collaborators, can't
> handle a few clicks makes no sense to me.
> "computer-unsavvy" is Latin for lazy, right?

It may also mean "people without spare time trying to move on with their

Seriously, and forgive me for the off-topic here, but it seems that on this
thread is slowly surfacing one of the worst sins of open source
communities: the attitude of "it's easy for me, then it must be easy for
you too, you lazy looser".

Well, usually it's not easy. And people is neither lazy nor lousy nor
anything. For most people on the world computers are just boxes they use to
complete a task they don't even want to do. There is nothing they should be
ashamed of if they don't care about the "superiority of X approach compared
to the evil Y", specially if X requires a long learning process.

You cannot tell a normal person "if you want to write in collaboration,
just use git". You cannot say to anyone, not even to me, someone that's
been using Linux as his main system for the last two decades, to "use
make". That attitude is not only wrong, it is one of the main reasons why
we are still a minority on the consumer market. If your answers are
targeted to computer wise persons, only computer wise person will listen to

As I said, I started to use F(L)OSS almost two decades ago. I'm using LyX
since before it switched to Qt. Back then I compiled every new version by
myself. But even with my experience I would have loved to have an
"everything within the file" file format when, twelve years ago, I was
writing my PhD thesis on LyX: at the time I did not had an internet
connection at home so syncing all the files was a real PITA. Even now, in a
time with automated backup utilities, usb drives and cloud storage I found
the lack of an easy way to work on a "project" instead of "fiddling with
several folders, each with dozens if not hundreds of files" quite

And another thing: the fact that MS implemented some idea does not means
the idea is bad, saying so it's silly. A lot of F(L)OSS projects use "all
within the file" file formats: ODF, and open source ISO standard, it's just
a bunch of xml files and folders comfortably packed on a zip file. Also,
can you even imagine what would be to work on krita or gimp if those
projects just save all layers and masks on different files?

Please, people, think a bit on real users, not just on yourselves.

Thanks. [end of off-topic]


> el
> On 2017-07-29 11:55 , Roberto wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Make is your friend.
> >
> > I collaborate on dropbox with make-unfriendly computer-unsavvy people,
> > make is not an option - and this is not such an uncommon case I guess!
> > Instead, an _editable_ file format that __guarantees__ you have all is
> > needed to compile the file is a haven for data integrity.
> >
> > All the rest, I am sorry, is too geeky-pretensions-minded in my
> > opinion.  This kind of thinking in my opinion is ultimately the
> > reason of the same attitude that causes some people never get over
> > the learning curve of LaTeX. Do you want to collaborate with just
> > computer skilled people? or you want to collaborate on writing just
> > as effectively with just anybody? if you opt for the second, then LyX
> > is a great solution, but the need to carry around figures is still
> > a burden for some. Is this clear? (I said for some, maybe is not a
> > problem for me, not a problem for you, but is a problem for the other
> > half of the world! try to wear their shoes every now and then!)
> >
> > So, if you wanted to use make, then for most users you can as well
> > suggest to use LaTeX on vi :) is as much difficulty (infinity!)! Going
> > by this token one always ends up saying "my current implementation
> > can do it, just do 1), 2). 3) n) steps, but what effort does it
> > take? Before answering think about your grandma having to do it ...

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