On Mar 10, 2011, at 8:32 AM, objectwerks inc wrote: > > You still do not get it Chris. This has nothing to do with the listserve and > how it is configured.
You are correct. It has nothing to do with the listserve. They are using List-Post which is what they should do. Apple Mail is ignoring List-Post and provides no easy or obvious mechanism to use it. And that is related, because it it did, I would certainly use that rather than Reply All. > This has to do with emails straight between two parties, that you insist on > sending twice to the same person because you are too lazy to use email > appropriately and trim out addresses so that the same person is not in the > list twice, which happens due to the way Apple Mail handles REPLY ALL when > there is a REPLY-TO header set (which might be considered a bug on Apple Mail > part, debatable of course, but since you want to use Apple Mail you need to > work around its limitations). It is not "appropriate" to trim out addresses, anymore than it is "inappropriate" to not trim them out. The request is invalid and it's also denied. It will continue to be denied. > However, the list was set up to reply to the post sender, and not to the > list, by default, so that you would have to THINK about what you were posting > and whether an answer was appropriate for the poster only or for the whole > list to see. If you wanted the WHOLE LIST to see your answer to a list > post, they purposefully made it so that you had to type the list name in to > the TO or CC field manually. I doubt that was their thought process considering the server is set up exactly correct per RFC. Had they been thinking this way, they would set List-Post to No which then would cause the behavior you suggest. But clearly List-Post is an invitation for automatic replies back to the list, it's a local configuration issue. Not their problem and they have no say in the matter in any event. That kind of micromanagement of humans, as well as Apple Mail's ignorance of List-Post, leads people to say "screw it, I'm pushing Reply All". I will not trim, it's too much effort, call it lazy, I still have no idea which email you want me to trim and I'm absolutely not manually trimming just one of your email addresses. Nothing in RFC requires or even remotely suggests, that I or the email application to do this. > This was done on purpose this way to try and keep crap me-to posts and > similar off the list. The problem is that too many people just hit REPLY > ALL without realizing what that does and send crap posts directly to too many > other people who were participating in the discussion, directly. Bypassing > the list. They do this without looking at who they are sending to and > trimming appropriately. Which is the problem you have. And why do they hit Reply All? Because there isn't an equally easy and obvious alternative. If there were an alternative people would most likely use it. So you can say that cars accelerate because a human pushed down on a gas pedal and be correct, but it's wrong for you to say the engine had nothing to do with it. They are all part of a system. > When Bart posted his question, I replied to him directly, and not on the > list, as it was not germane to the list. Of course, you just hit REPLY ALL > and blasted your answer to the list even when not appropriate, plus directly > to Bart. Think about it. It's a list. I'm on dozens of lists with hundreds of daily emails. I know how to manage them. Apparently you don't. You're the only person I've had a list argument with in, I don't know, probably five years, that was unrelated to the topic of the list. > I purposefully posted this to you and the list (but manually cut Bart out) > since I figured it would be good to explain why the list is set up the way it > is. It is good information for people to know. And how to appropriately > deal with the list and make replies -- which is not to just REPLY ALL without > trimming. You have no idea how the list is set up so it's conjecture on your part why it's set up the way it is. I will continue to Reply All without trimming. That is my default behavior and it isn't getting changed. There is a vastly better chance that Apple Mail in Lion will honor List-Post in a sensible way than me trimming individual email addresses. Chris Murphy_______________________________________________ MacOSX-admin mailing list [email protected] http://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-admin
