Personally, I find the Mac way of editing more intutitive, but that's just me. Also one of my friends told me that the Mac edits the way sighted folks would - i don't know if this is the case in Windows. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Howell" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 1:39 AM Subject: Re: 3 features that hmm?
> > Come on this is crazy. You just can't imagine the number of people who > bitched and complained about this whole editing issue and I believe > Apple was taken to task by one of the rags put out by the NFB or some > organization about the editing issue. APparently enough people > complained that Apple was trying to provide the flexibility for those > users who need it. Yeah, I am one of the Scotts who made this point > because I remember clearly the noise about this editing issue. I see > no benefit in removing it and quite frankly since it's here, whatever > at this point. If it really helps someone , fine because there are > those who would simply not consider the Mac for this reason. It is an > option and not a default and that is why it's a feature not worth > removing. My point is you have to think beyond what you have stated > and I don't entirely disagree with your point of what is or is not a > standard way of editing etc. At the same time, it obviously didn't > take a great deal of effort to implement it and at least it is an > option. > On Aug 29, 2009, at 7:14 PM, Scott Chesworth wrote: > >> >> Also just my oppinion, but I disagree about points 1 and 2. >> >> Can't say I ever have used feature numero uno in any OS as there are >> so few webpages I'd actually want to read 100% of their content, but >> someone somewhere will find it useful. You could argue that the >> reading webpages automatically is as close as Apple could get to a >> sighted person glancing at the screen when the page comes up and >> taking in the bigger picture, which we can't do. >> >> Voiceover hints are definitely useful and a good thing. Context >> sensitive help like that enables most people to be on a way shorter >> learning curve usually than reading a whole manual and trying to apply >> things to a ton of situations at once. It's annoying that they're >> enabled by default for you or I perhaps, but newbies are going to >> thank Apple for it no doubt. Come to that, so will developers who >> fire up VO for the first time when they receive a disgruntled email >> from someone who's asking them to make adjustments to their >> applications. It'll instantly demonstrate to them the difference >> between what works and what doesn't, it gives them instructions >> equally as precise as that email from the VI user would in most cases. >> >> Wholeheartedly agreed about point 3 though. I just don't get this >> one. You also hit the nail right on the head with the reason the >> option shouldn't exist, it modifies a standard that doesn't in any way >> need to be modified, purely because of some VI people's rut that >> they're firmly jammed into. To add weight to a big sweeping oppinion >> like that, I should say that I was raised on Windows, still use >> Windows more often than many on here I expect, and I make my fair >> share of mistakes editing in Mac OS if I haven't done any in a while. >> I don't see this option as the solution, I see it as cheating. I >> doubt that many people will see this as an option to ease their >> progression into Mac OS as one of the other Scott's suggested, human's >> just don't work that way, for the most part we're creatures of habit >> even if they're bad ones. >> >> Tricky one though isn't it. Emailing Apple and asking that a feature >> be removed seems somehow wrong in my mind. In any case, I'm not sure >> they'd get it. I just tried to explain why I disagree with the >> feature and what's potentially at stake here to a sighted mac user, >> and she point blank didn't get it. I'm not sure that anyone who >> hasn't had to appreciate how cool mainstream technology that works for >> us out of the box would, even Apple themselves might not, they >> probably see the introduction of this feature as the best thing they >> could've done to silence a lot of whinging lol. >> >> Just my 2 cents, or perhaps pennies worth for those on this side of >> the pond... >> Scott >> >> On 8/29/09, Scott Howell <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Well good for you, I'm glad you did not need these features and you >>> learned the way we all started out. However, of course the only plus >>> side is that for those who want to make the transition and really >>> find >>> what we "grew up with" difficult, will at least have a way to ease >>> their transition over from the dark side. :) So, I agree with you, >>> but these are small prices to pay if it will truly help someone make >>> the transition. >>> >>> On Aug 29, 2009, at 6:17 PM, Marie Howarth wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> well, this is purely my opinion but 3 features that horribly >>>> remind me >>>> of windows are as follows. >>>> 1. automatic reading of a webpage. >>>> 2. voice over hints. I know what to do in a text area, especially >>>> when >>>> it already says edit text. >>>> 3. insertion point. this has been discussed, it's counter intuitive >>>> and doesn't teach the vi community how it would look to sighties. >>>> >>>> all I can say is I'm so glad these features are optional. they are >>>> just horrific and no one can tell me that it will help progression >>>> from windows to mac. I didn't have these features and I am so glad I >>>> did. mac is not windows, when will people realise this. >>>> >>>> overall vo rocks even more in this version, and I am grateful to >>>> apple >>>> for giving us a choice. really glad. >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>>> >>> >> >> > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
