Again: WHY are we all building this db with a sync protocol? What's the problem we're trying to solve? The answer to that is our marketing pitch.
On 7 November 2014 20:50, Noah Slater <[email protected]> wrote: > Just to cover some old ground here: but I'd like to stay away from > "replicate" or "sync" in our primary messaging. > > Remember: > > - Why? -- what's our purpose, our goal, our shared values? > - How? -- replicate/sync > - What? -- HTTP, JSON, MapReduce, Erlang > > Our slogan (which we could lead with on our website) should > communicate that value. Which is why I'm reaching for something like, > we want to liberate your data. How are we going to do that? By > building the world's best data store with the world's best sync > protocol. And we're gonna do that with HTTP, JSON, MapReduce, Erlang, > etc. > > Do you see how the narrative could flow on the homepage? Imagine each > stage as a visibly separate section. > > > > On 7 November 2014 18:41, Nick Pavlica <[email protected]> wrote: >> All, >> As with the logo, I fully agree that the motto needs to be changed. I >> have never been a fan of the "relax" slogan, and have just tried to ignore >> it. As I think about it, I wounder if we really need a motto at all. The >> really hard thing when selecting a motto for something like CouchDB is that >> can mean something different to everyone. However, if there is one >> strength that CouchDB has as a main differentiator from other databases is >> it's syncing/replication capabilities. >> >> Regards, >> -- Nick Pavlica >> >> >> >> On Fri Nov 07 2014 at 9:58:26 AM Joan Touzet <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> FYI I recommend reading: >>> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raised_fist >>> >>> for a history of the political implications of that logo. >>> >>> As to Alex's comment, I like the riff on the French national motto >>> of freedom, equality and brotherhood (Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité). >>> Worth experimenting a bit more there. >>> >>> -Joan >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Alexander Shorin" <[email protected]> >>> To: [email protected] >>> Cc: "Joan Touzet" <[email protected]>, "Sean Barclay" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Friday, November 7, 2014 11:50:11 AM >>> Subject: Re: New motto? >>> >>> I think "Liberate" is good one for some Open Data project or toolset >>> to work on it, but not for CouchDB which is a database in the first >>> place. As for me, my first association with "liberate" was "libre -> >>> libreoffice -> wtf", may be because this is rare word for me. If we >>> want (do we?) to focus on replication / data sync everywhere feature >>> then the one thing comes to my mind. If anyone still remember this >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E661isduPy8 there was one consonant to >>> "liberate" word - "replicate". I think replicate more clear and >>> explicitly defines the idea of "free to share your data, free to sync >>> it with whatever they want". >>> >>> "CouchDB. Replicate." or even "CouchDB. Liberate. Replicate." (yo). >>> >>> -- >>> ,,,^..^,,, >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Noah Slater <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > Wow, yeah. >>> > >>> > What do others thing about using this word? "Liberate"? I think it has >>> > the right mixture of connotations and meanings >>> > >>> > On 5 November 2014 23:50, Joan Touzet <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> Worth mentioning that Google has the Data Liberation Front team. >>> >> >>> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Data_Liberation_Front >>> >> >>> >> Interesting (and rather provocative!) logo there. >>> >> >>> >> -Joan >>> >> >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >> From: "Noah Slater" <[email protected]> >>> >> To: [email protected], "Javier Candeira" < >>> [email protected]> >>> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2014 12:52:05 PM >>> >> Subject: Re: New motto? >>> >> >>> >> So, I just mentioned on dev@, but one of the angles I was thinking >>> about was: >>> >> >>> >> - Liberate your data >>> >> - Free your data >>> >> >>> >> Perhaps with "The database that..." before either. >>> >> >>> >> I think this "liberate" idea taps intot the core of what I think our >>> >> "why?" is. We all seem to have the shared goal of wanting to help >>> >> people liberate their data, in terms of being able to move it wherever >>> >> they want, work on it how they want. Our sync/replication is really >>> >> only the implementation ("how?") of that goal. >>> >> >>> >> "Liberate" as a word, and the associations that go with it, also taps >>> >> into a growing movement of indie developers who are trying to move >>> >> away from closed data silos and corporate multinationals being in >>> >> control of massive amounts of user data. >>> >> >>> >> It echoes things like Unhoasted, OfflineFirst, POSSE and PESOS. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> On 1 November 2014 03:24, Javier Candeira <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Just brrainstorming, I think the "sync" is the biggest selling point >>> >>> of CouchDB. The fact that it doesn't lose data is obviously good >>> >>> (cough cough MongoDB cough), but you can hardly advertise "we don't >>> >>> lose your data" in your slogan, that should be a given. You don't >>> >>> advertise youghourt as "0% cyanide" either. >>> >>> >>> >>> Another strong point is the ecosystem, with TouchDB/Couchbase >>> >>> Lite/PouchDB leading the charge. >>> >>> >>> >>> So I would like to see a slogan along the lines that express the >>> >>> concept of "A database that gets the web, mobile and sync" (not a >>> >>> proposal, just a suggestionf or a message. >>> >>> >>> >>> Or, now in the terrain of slogans, mirroring the famous Dropbox "A >>> >>> Folder. On several computers. That syncs", we could say... >>> >>> >>> >>> "Your data, on the web and on your device, always in sync." >>> >>> >>> >>> Though that seems too specific, and getting a bit into Hoodie >>> territory. >>> >>> >>> >>> "CouchDB syncs your data to wherever you need to use it". Hmm, it's >>> >>> more than just sync. >>> >>> >>> >>> As I said above, this is just an idea dump, inspired by Noah's great >>> >>> reframing of the problem. >>> >>> >>> >>> J >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 9:44 PM, Jan Lehnardt <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks Noah! >>> >>>> >>> >>>> this is where we need to be heading. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> As related inspiration, see these storytelling rules by Pixar. Not all >>> >>>> apply to what we want to do, but pretend CouchDB is a character and we >>> >>>> want to tell its story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ >>> 2012/07/30/pixar-storytelling_n_1718854.html >>> >>>> >>> >>>> Best >>> >>>> Jan >>> >>>> -- >>> >>>> >>> >>>> >>> >>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 21:16 , Noah Slater <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Okay, so a while ago we had this discussion about what CouchDB's >>> "why" >>> >>>>> was. i.e. What's our purpose. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> There are three questions we can answer, at various points in our >>> >>>>> marketing material: >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Why? - What's our shared goal? >>> >>>>> How? - How are we working towards it? >>> >>>>> What? - What are the particulars of that approach. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Most projects get this the wrong way round. In fact, we have done. We >>> >>>>> tell you about JSON and HTTP and whatever up front. That's the what. >>> >>>>> It's not interesting. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> We've had suggestions to use the motto "The database that >>> >>>>> replicates/syncs". That's better. But this is the how. We're telling >>> >>>>> you how we're working towards our shared goal. Still no explicit >>> goal. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Now. You look at Apple, and their motto was "think different". It was >>> >>>>> always about challenging the status quo and putting the user first. >>> >>>>> They just happened to be doing that by building a computer. (Now a >>> >>>>> phone, a watch, etc, etc...) >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> The thing about stating your values up front is that you attract >>> >>>>> people with the same values. They "believe" in you and what you're >>> >>>>> doing in a very emotional way. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Compare this to Dell. You know anybody who's passionate about Dell? >>> >>>>> "Hey, we build powerful computers. Buy one." Okay sure, maybe. But >>> I'm >>> >>>>> not gonna *feel* anything about it. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> So, let's talk about Couch. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> I think that our core value is giving people the power to do what >>> they >>> >>>>> want with their data. To keep it where ever they want. To move it >>> >>>>> where ever they want. And for this to be as easy as possible. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Here's a sample formulation >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> "We want to put your data in your hands. We're gonna do that by >>> >>>>> making it easy to move your anywhere you want. We just happen to >>> >>>>> building a database." >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> arkos has a great slogan: "Your data, your rules" >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> This is where we need to be heading. This isn't about syncing. This >>> is >>> >>>>> about giving people the power to move their data into and out of >>> >>>>> whatever environment, platform, and device they want to. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Data autonomy? >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Some other notes: >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Mikeal Rogers said to me that after working with Couch, he started to >>> >>>>> take it for granted that getting data back out of a database should >>> be >>> >>>>> as easy as putting it in. (But apparently this isn't so) He said this >>> >>>>> was a unique feature of CouchDB. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Tom Dale once said something about the need to share and distribute >>> >>>>> data. No silos. Host individual sites in your own server. Can't >>> >>>>> remember the context, just have it in my notes. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> But this ties into the IndieWebCamp concept of POSSE. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> And also dovetails with OfflineFirst, things like unhosted, and the >>> >>>>> growing movement of people who want local data ownership. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Also think about the fact that CouchDB is more like Git than >>> >>>>> PostgreSQL. (Thanks Jan, for the analogy.) Decentralised data, >>> >>>>> workflows, syncing, etc. What is this about really? It's about >>> >>>>> enabling decentralised data management. Ties into the same concept. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Access your data anywhere >>> >>>>> Access your data offline >>> >>>>> Decentralised data management >>> >>>>> Puts you in control of your own data >>> >>>>> Local data ownership >>> >>>>> Grants you data autonomy >>> >>>>> Your data, your rules >>> >>>>> Puts your data back in your hands >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> ^ Not slogans, just prompts. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> What's our why? If we find that, we'll have our slogan. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> On 30 October 2014 19:45, Andy Ellicott <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>>>> I think I read something recently that there's more mobile than web >>> app development happening these days, so "web" might end up sounding >>> outdated. >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Random input: >>> >>>>>> "Synchronicity" is a word we're using to differentiate >>> couchdb-style dbs from others. Feel free to reuse or take inspiration from >>> that...or not :) >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Andy >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014, at 2:35 PM, Alexander Shorin <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> Will repeat myself on IRC: >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> "A database for the web" isn't good one since PouchDB is eventually >>> >>>>>>> more "database for the web" than CouchDB now. >>> >>>>>>> We need something more fresh, unique and collision safe as like as >>> >>>>>>> "Time to relax!" was - it's hard to associate any other database >>> with >>> >>>>>>> the same motto. >>> >>>>>>> -- >>> >>>>>>> ,,,^..^,,, >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Joan Touzet <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>>>>>> Coming out of the logo discussion, it seems 2.0 may be the >>> >>>>>>>> right time to consider a new motto, replacing "Time to relax." >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> PouchDB is "The database that syncs." >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> On http://couchdb.apache.org/ today, "A database for the web" >>> >>>>>>>> is the most prominent motto, bigger than "Relax." >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Jan and I will be on stage in 3 weeks in Budapest to present >>> >>>>>>>> plans for CouchDB 2.0. I'd love to make an announcement of a >>> >>>>>>>> new motto there, even if we don't have a new logo (or consensus >>> >>>>>>>> on one) by that time. >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> Thoughts, suggestions, comments? >>> >>>>>>>> >>> >>>>>>>> -Joan >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> -- >>> >>>>> Noah Slater >>> >>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater >>> >>>> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Noah Slater >>> >> https://twitter.com/nslater >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > -- >>> > Noah Slater >>> > https://twitter.com/nslater >>> > > > > -- > Noah Slater > https://twitter.com/nslater -- Noah Slater https://twitter.com/nslater
