All, Again: WHY are we all building this db with a sync protocol? What's > the problem we're trying to solve? The answer to that is our marketing > pitch. >
I agree that it's most logical to look at the project holistically, rather than a predominate feature. In some sense though, this continues to support the idea that CouchDB means different things to different people. I don't see CouchDB as a Diaspora style project that is primarily focused on keeping ownership of users data with them. For me, the replication/sync functionality is what it's all about. I'm sure others could add many other perspectives as well. That being said, I'm sure a good motto can be devised, but I'm not sure we have landed on it yet. I wounder if something like, or derived from these keywords would work: - "Everywhere" - "Together" - "Communicate" - "Connected" - "Protocol" -"......." I believe that the predominate concept of CouchDB today, is it's ability to communicate/sync/replicate data with other databases like PouchDB, and syncing endpoints like the one recently built in PHP. Of course there are other examples of this built with Python, Dart, Etc. Regards! -- Nick Pavlica > On 7 November 2014 20:50, Noah Slater <[email protected]> wrote: > > Just to cover some old ground here: but I'd like to stay away from > > "replicate" or "sync" in our primary messaging. > > > > Remember: > > > > - Why? -- what's our purpose, our goal, our shared values? > > - How? -- replicate/sync > > - What? -- HTTP, JSON, MapReduce, Erlang > > > > Our slogan (which we could lead with on our website) should > > communicate that value. Which is why I'm reaching for something like, > > we want to liberate your data. How are we going to do that? By > > building the world's best data store with the world's best sync > > protocol. And we're gonna do that with HTTP, JSON, MapReduce, Erlang, > > etc. > > > > Do you see how the narrative could flow on the homepage? Imagine each > > stage as a visibly separate section. > > > > > > > > On 7 November 2014 18:41, Nick Pavlica <[email protected]> wrote: > >> All, > >> As with the logo, I fully agree that the motto needs to be changed. I > >> have never been a fan of the "relax" slogan, and have just tried to > ignore > >> it. As I think about it, I wounder if we really need a motto at all. > The > >> really hard thing when selecting a motto for something like CouchDB is > that > >> can mean something different to everyone. However, if there is one > >> strength that CouchDB has as a main differentiator from other databases > is > >> it's syncing/replication capabilities. > >> > >> Regards, > >> -- Nick Pavlica > >> > >> > >> > >> On Fri Nov 07 2014 at 9:58:26 AM Joan Touzet <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> FYI I recommend reading: > >>> > >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raised_fist > >>> > >>> for a history of the political implications of that logo. > >>> > >>> As to Alex's comment, I like the riff on the French national motto > >>> of freedom, equality and brotherhood (Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité). > >>> Worth experimenting a bit more there. > >>> > >>> -Joan > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Alexander Shorin" <[email protected]> > >>> To: [email protected] > >>> Cc: "Joan Touzet" <[email protected]>, "Sean Barclay" < > [email protected]> > >>> Sent: Friday, November 7, 2014 11:50:11 AM > >>> Subject: Re: New motto? > >>> > >>> I think "Liberate" is good one for some Open Data project or toolset > >>> to work on it, but not for CouchDB which is a database in the first > >>> place. As for me, my first association with "liberate" was "libre -> > >>> libreoffice -> wtf", may be because this is rare word for me. If we > >>> want (do we?) to focus on replication / data sync everywhere feature > >>> then the one thing comes to my mind. If anyone still remember this > >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E661isduPy8 there was one consonant to > >>> "liberate" word - "replicate". I think replicate more clear and > >>> explicitly defines the idea of "free to share your data, free to sync > >>> it with whatever they want". > >>> > >>> "CouchDB. Replicate." or even "CouchDB. Liberate. Replicate." (yo). > >>> > >>> -- > >>> ,,,^..^,,, > >>> > >>> > >>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Noah Slater <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> > Wow, yeah. > >>> > > >>> > What do others thing about using this word? "Liberate"? I think it > has > >>> > the right mixture of connotations and meanings > >>> > > >>> > On 5 November 2014 23:50, Joan Touzet <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> >> Worth mentioning that Google has the Data Liberation Front team. > >>> >> > >>> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Data_Liberation_Front > >>> >> > >>> >> Interesting (and rather provocative!) logo there. > >>> >> > >>> >> -Joan > >>> >> > >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> >> From: "Noah Slater" <[email protected]> > >>> >> To: [email protected], "Javier Candeira" < > >>> [email protected]> > >>> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2014 12:52:05 PM > >>> >> Subject: Re: New motto? > >>> >> > >>> >> So, I just mentioned on dev@, but one of the angles I was thinking > >>> about was: > >>> >> > >>> >> - Liberate your data > >>> >> - Free your data > >>> >> > >>> >> Perhaps with "The database that..." before either. > >>> >> > >>> >> I think this "liberate" idea taps intot the core of what I think our > >>> >> "why?" is. We all seem to have the shared goal of wanting to help > >>> >> people liberate their data, in terms of being able to move it > wherever > >>> >> they want, work on it how they want. Our sync/replication is really > >>> >> only the implementation ("how?") of that goal. > >>> >> > >>> >> "Liberate" as a word, and the associations that go with it, also > taps > >>> >> into a growing movement of indie developers who are trying to move > >>> >> away from closed data silos and corporate multinationals being in > >>> >> control of massive amounts of user data. > >>> >> > >>> >> It echoes things like Unhoasted, OfflineFirst, POSSE and PESOS. > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> On 1 November 2014 03:24, Javier Candeira <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> >>> Just brrainstorming, I think the "sync" is the biggest selling > point > >>> >>> of CouchDB. The fact that it doesn't lose data is obviously good > >>> >>> (cough cough MongoDB cough), but you can hardly advertise "we don't > >>> >>> lose your data" in your slogan, that should be a given. You don't > >>> >>> advertise youghourt as "0% cyanide" either. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Another strong point is the ecosystem, with TouchDB/Couchbase > >>> >>> Lite/PouchDB leading the charge. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> So I would like to see a slogan along the lines that express the > >>> >>> concept of "A database that gets the web, mobile and sync" (not a > >>> >>> proposal, just a suggestionf or a message. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Or, now in the terrain of slogans, mirroring the famous Dropbox "A > >>> >>> Folder. On several computers. That syncs", we could say... > >>> >>> > >>> >>> "Your data, on the web and on your device, always in sync." > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Though that seems too specific, and getting a bit into Hoodie > >>> territory. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> "CouchDB syncs your data to wherever you need to use it". Hmm, it's > >>> >>> more than just sync. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> As I said above, this is just an idea dump, inspired by Noah's > great > >>> >>> reframing of the problem. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> J > >>> >>> > >>> >>> > >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 9:44 PM, Jan Lehnardt <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> >>>> Thanks Noah! > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> this is where we need to be heading. > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> As related inspiration, see these storytelling rules by Pixar. > Not all > >>> >>>> apply to what we want to do, but pretend CouchDB is a character > and we > >>> >>>> want to tell its story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ > >>> 2012/07/30/pixar-storytelling_n_1718854.html > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> Best > >>> >>>> Jan > >>> >>>> -- > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 21:16 , Noah Slater <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> Okay, so a while ago we had this discussion about what CouchDB's > >>> "why" > >>> >>>>> was. i.e. What's our purpose. > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> There are three questions we can answer, at various points in our > >>> >>>>> marketing material: > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> Why? - What's our shared goal? > >>> >>>>> How? - How are we working towards it? > >>> >>>>> What? - What are the particulars of that approach. > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> Most projects get this the wrong way round. In fact, we have > done. We > >>> >>>>> tell you about JSON and HTTP and whatever up front. That's the > what. > >>> >>>>> It's not interesting. > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> We've had suggestions to use the motto "The database that > >>> >>>>> replicates/syncs". That's better. But this is the how. We're > telling > >>> >>>>> you how we're working towards our shared goal. Still no explicit > >>> goal. > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> Now. You look at Apple, and their motto was "think different". > It was > >>> >>>>> always about challenging the status quo and putting the user > first. > >>> >>>>> They just happened to be doing that by building a computer. (Now > a > >>> >>>>> phone, a watch, etc, etc...) > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> The thing about stating your values up front is that you attract > >>> >>>>> people with the same values. They "believe" in you and what > you're > >>> >>>>> doing in a very emotional way. > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> Compare this to Dell. You know anybody who's passionate about > Dell? > >>> >>>>> "Hey, we build powerful computers. Buy one." Okay sure, maybe. > But > >>> I'm > >>> >>>>> not gonna *feel* anything about it. > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> So, let's talk about Couch. > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> I think that our core value is giving people the power to do what > >>> they > >>> >>>>> want with their data. To keep it where ever they want. To move it > >>> >>>>> where ever they want. And for this to be as easy as possible. > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> Here's a sample formulation > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> "We want to put your data in your hands. We're gonna do that by > >>> >>>>> making it easy to move your anywhere you want. We just happen to > >>> >>>>> building a database." > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> arkos has a great slogan: "Your data, your rules" > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> This is where we need to be heading. This isn't about syncing. > This > >>> is > >>> >>>>> about giving people the power to move their data into and out of > >>> >>>>> whatever environment, platform, and device they want to. > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> Data autonomy? > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> Some other notes: > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> Mikeal Rogers said to me that after working with Couch, he > started to > >>> >>>>> take it for granted that getting data back out of a database > should > >>> be > >>> >>>>> as easy as putting it in. (But apparently this isn't so) He said > this > >>> >>>>> was a unique feature of CouchDB. > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> Tom Dale once said something about the need to share and > distribute > >>> >>>>> data. No silos. Host individual sites in your own server. Can't > >>> >>>>> remember the context, just have it in my notes. > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> But this ties into the IndieWebCamp concept of POSSE. > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> And also dovetails with OfflineFirst, things like unhosted, and > the > >>> >>>>> growing movement of people who want local data ownership. > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> Also think about the fact that CouchDB is more like Git than > >>> >>>>> PostgreSQL. (Thanks Jan, for the analogy.) Decentralised data, > >>> >>>>> workflows, syncing, etc. What is this about really? It's about > >>> >>>>> enabling decentralised data management. Ties into the same > concept. > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> Access your data anywhere > >>> >>>>> Access your data offline > >>> >>>>> Decentralised data management > >>> >>>>> Puts you in control of your own data > >>> >>>>> Local data ownership > >>> >>>>> Grants you data autonomy > >>> >>>>> Your data, your rules > >>> >>>>> Puts your data back in your hands > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> ^ Not slogans, just prompts. > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> What's our why? If we find that, we'll have our slogan. > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> On 30 October 2014 19:45, Andy Ellicott <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> >>>>>> I think I read something recently that there's more mobile than > web > >>> app development happening these days, so "web" might end up sounding > >>> outdated. > >>> >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> Random input: > >>> >>>>>> "Synchronicity" is a word we're using to differentiate > >>> couchdb-style dbs from others. Feel free to reuse or take inspiration > from > >>> that...or not :) > >>> >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> Andy > >>> >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone > >>> >>>>>> > >>> >>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014, at 2:35 PM, Alexander Shorin < > [email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>> >>>>>>> > >>> >>>>>>> Will repeat myself on IRC: > >>> >>>>>>> > >>> >>>>>>> "A database for the web" isn't good one since PouchDB is > eventually > >>> >>>>>>> more "database for the web" than CouchDB now. > >>> >>>>>>> We need something more fresh, unique and collision safe as > like as > >>> >>>>>>> "Time to relax!" was - it's hard to associate any other > database > >>> with > >>> >>>>>>> the same motto. > >>> >>>>>>> -- > >>> >>>>>>> ,,,^..^,,, > >>> >>>>>>> > >>> >>>>>>> > >>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Joan Touzet <[email protected]> > >>> wrote: > >>> >>>>>>>> Coming out of the logo discussion, it seems 2.0 may be the > >>> >>>>>>>> right time to consider a new motto, replacing "Time to relax." > >>> >>>>>>>> > >>> >>>>>>>> PouchDB is "The database that syncs." > >>> >>>>>>>> > >>> >>>>>>>> On http://couchdb.apache.org/ today, "A database for the web" > >>> >>>>>>>> is the most prominent motto, bigger than "Relax." > >>> >>>>>>>> > >>> >>>>>>>> Jan and I will be on stage in 3 weeks in Budapest to present > >>> >>>>>>>> plans for CouchDB 2.0. I'd love to make an announcement of a > >>> >>>>>>>> new motto there, even if we don't have a new logo (or > consensus > >>> >>>>>>>> on one) by that time. > >>> >>>>>>>> > >>> >>>>>>>> Thoughts, suggestions, comments? > >>> >>>>>>>> > >>> >>>>>>>> -Joan > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> > >>> >>>>> -- > >>> >>>>> Noah Slater > >>> >>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater > >>> >>>> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> -- > >>> >> Noah Slater > >>> >> https://twitter.com/nslater > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > Noah Slater > >>> > https://twitter.com/nslater > >>> > > > > > > > > -- > > Noah Slater > > https://twitter.com/nslater > > > > -- > Noah Slater > https://twitter.com/nslater >
