Well, Web is driven by HTTP and without HTTP CouchDB will be not CouchDB. The communication protocol is the one of key feature, imho. -- ,,,^..^,,,
On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 6:44 PM, Andy Ellicott <[email protected]> wrote: > I'd avoid tying the motto to a specific app architecture/type? It runs the > risk of becoming stale IMHO. > e.g., I think I read somewhere that mobile development has eclipsed (or > soon will eclipse) web development. > > > > Andy Ellicott > VP Marketing > Cloudant.com, an IBM company > 200 State Street > Boston, MA 02109 > (m) +1 603 205 2804 > > > > > From: Alexander Shorin <[email protected]> > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Date: 11/20/2014 10:31 AM > Subject: Re: New motto? > > > > Database for Web. > > -- > ,,,^..^,,, > > On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 6:24 PM, Mike Broberg <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Just some ideas -- if only to kick this thread back up when people have >> returned from Apachecon Europe :P >> >> - Data that moves >> (from a short doc that Diana Thayer wrote: >> http://docs.cloudant.com/guides/moving-clusters.html) >> - Data, with all the right moves >> - Set your data in motion >> - The freedom to move >> (a basic human right: >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights#Freedom_of_movement) >> - Data that moves. Data that's freed. >> - Your data, wherever you need it >> >> >> Maybe they're not inspiring enough, lol. Digging all y'all's ideas. > --Mike >> -- >> Mike Broberg | IBM Cloudant | 200 State Street, Boston, MA 02109 | >> [email protected] | (617) 299-1409 Google Voice >> -- >> >> [image: Inactive hide details for Noah Slater ---11/07/2014 02:51:33 >> PM---Again: WHY are we all building this db with a sync protocol?]Noah >> Slater ---11/07/2014 02:51:33 PM---Again: WHY are we all building this > db >> with a sync protocol? What's the problem we're trying to solv >> >> From: Noah Slater <[email protected]> >> To: Noah Slater <[email protected]> >> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> Date: 11/07/2014 02:51 PM >> Subject: Re: New motto? >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> >> Again: WHY are we all building this db with a sync protocol? What's >> the problem we're trying to solve? The answer to that is our marketing >> pitch. >> >> On 7 November 2014 20:50, Noah Slater <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Just to cover some old ground here: but I'd like to stay away from >> > "replicate" or "sync" in our primary messaging. >> > >> > Remember: >> > >> > - Why? -- what's our purpose, our goal, our shared values? >> > - How? -- replicate/sync >> > - What? -- HTTP, JSON, MapReduce, Erlang >> > >> > Our slogan (which we could lead with on our website) should >> > communicate that value. Which is why I'm reaching for something like, >> > we want to liberate your data. How are we going to do that? By >> > building the world's best data store with the world's best sync >> > protocol. And we're gonna do that with HTTP, JSON, MapReduce, Erlang, >> > etc. >> > >> > Do you see how the narrative could flow on the homepage? Imagine each >> > stage as a visibly separate section. >> > >> > >> > >> > On 7 November 2014 18:41, Nick Pavlica <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> All, >> >> As with the logo, I fully agree that the motto needs to be changed. > I >> >> have never been a fan of the "relax" slogan, and have just tried to >> ignore >> >> it. As I think about it, I wounder if we really need a motto at all. >> The >> >> really hard thing when selecting a motto for something like CouchDB > is >> that >> >> can mean something different to everyone. However, if there is one >> >> strength that CouchDB has as a main differentiator from other > databases >> is >> >> it's syncing/replication capabilities. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> -- Nick Pavlica >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Fri Nov 07 2014 at 9:58:26 AM Joan Touzet <[email protected]> > wrote: >> >> >> >>> FYI I recommend reading: >> >>> >> >>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raised_fist >> >>> >> >>> for a history of the political implications of that logo. >> >>> >> >>> As to Alex's comment, I like the riff on the French national motto >> >>> of freedom, equality and brotherhood (Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité). >> >>> Worth experimenting a bit more there. >> >>> >> >>> -Joan >> >>> >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: "Alexander Shorin" <[email protected]> >> >>> To: [email protected] >> >>> Cc: "Joan Touzet" <[email protected]>, "Sean Barclay" < >> [email protected]> >> >>> Sent: Friday, November 7, 2014 11:50:11 AM >> >>> Subject: Re: New motto? >> >>> >> >>> I think "Liberate" is good one for some Open Data project or toolset >> >>> to work on it, but not for CouchDB which is a database in the first >> >>> place. As for me, my first association with "liberate" was "libre -> >> >>> libreoffice -> wtf", may be because this is rare word for me. If we >> >>> want (do we?) to focus on replication / data sync everywhere feature >> >>> then the one thing comes to my mind. If anyone still remember this >> >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E661isduPy8 there was one consonant > to >> >>> "liberate" word - "replicate". I think replicate more clear and >> >>> explicitly defines the idea of "free to share your data, free to > sync >> >>> it with whatever they want". >> >>> >> >>> "CouchDB. Replicate." or even "CouchDB. Liberate. Replicate." (yo). >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> ,,,^..^,,, >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Noah Slater <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> > Wow, yeah. >> >>> > >> >>> > What do others thing about using this word? "Liberate"? I think it >> has >> >>> > the right mixture of connotations and meanings >> >>> > >> >>> > On 5 November 2014 23:50, Joan Touzet <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >> Worth mentioning that Google has the Data Liberation Front team. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Data_Liberation_Front >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Interesting (and rather provocative!) logo there. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> -Joan >> >>> >> >> >>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> >> From: "Noah Slater" <[email protected]> >> >>> >> To: [email protected], "Javier Candeira" < >> >>> [email protected]> >> >>> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2014 12:52:05 PM >> >>> >> Subject: Re: New motto? >> >>> >> >> >>> >> So, I just mentioned on dev@, but one of the angles I was > thinking >> >>> about was: >> >>> >> >> >>> >> - Liberate your data >> >>> >> - Free your data >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Perhaps with "The database that..." before either. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> I think this "liberate" idea taps intot the core of what I think > our >> >>> >> "why?" is. We all seem to have the shared goal of wanting to help >> >>> >> people liberate their data, in terms of being able to move it >> wherever >> >>> >> they want, work on it how they want. Our sync/replication is > really >> >>> >> only the implementation ("how?") of that goal. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> "Liberate" as a word, and the associations that go with it, also >> taps >> >>> >> into a growing movement of indie developers who are trying to > move >> >>> >> away from closed data silos and corporate multinationals being in >> >>> >> control of massive amounts of user data. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> It echoes things like Unhoasted, OfflineFirst, POSSE and PESOS. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> On 1 November 2014 03:24, Javier Candeira <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Just brrainstorming, I think the "sync" is the biggest selling >> point >> >>> >>> of CouchDB. The fact that it doesn't lose data is obviously good >> >>> >>> (cough cough MongoDB cough), but you can hardly advertise "we > don't >> >>> >>> lose your data" in your slogan, that should be a given. You > don't >> >>> >>> advertise youghourt as "0% cyanide" either. >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> Another strong point is the ecosystem, with TouchDB/Couchbase >> >>> >>> Lite/PouchDB leading the charge. >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> So I would like to see a slogan along the lines that express the >> >>> >>> concept of "A database that gets the web, mobile and sync" (not > a >> >>> >>> proposal, just a suggestionf or a message. >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> Or, now in the terrain of slogans, mirroring the famous Dropbox > "A >> >>> >>> Folder. On several computers. That syncs", we could say... >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> "Your data, on the web and on your device, always in sync." >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> Though that seems too specific, and getting a bit into Hoodie >> >>> territory. >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> "CouchDB syncs your data to wherever you need to use it". Hmm, > it's >> >>> >>> more than just sync. >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> As I said above, this is just an idea dump, inspired by Noah's >> great >> >>> >>> reframing of the problem. >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> J >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 9:44 PM, Jan Lehnardt <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>>> Thanks Noah! >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> this is where we need to be heading. >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> As related inspiration, see these storytelling rules by Pixar. >> Not all >> >>> >>>> apply to what we want to do, but pretend CouchDB is a character >> and we >> >>> >>>> want to tell its story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ >> >>> 2012/07/30/pixar-storytelling_n_1718854.html >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> Best >> >>> >>>> Jan >> >>> >>>> -- >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 21:16 , Noah Slater <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> Okay, so a while ago we had this discussion about what > CouchDB's >> >>> "why" >> >>> >>>>> was. i.e. What's our purpose. >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> There are three questions we can answer, at various points in > our >> >>> >>>>> marketing material: >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> Why? - What's our shared goal? >> >>> >>>>> How? - How are we working towards it? >> >>> >>>>> What? - What are the particulars of that approach. >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> Most projects get this the wrong way round. In fact, we have >> done. We >> >>> >>>>> tell you about JSON and HTTP and whatever up front. That's the >> what. >> >>> >>>>> It's not interesting. >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> We've had suggestions to use the motto "The database that >> >>> >>>>> replicates/syncs". That's better. But this is the how. We're >> telling >> >>> >>>>> you how we're working towards our shared goal. Still no > explicit >> >>> goal. >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> Now. You look at Apple, and their motto was "think different". >> It was >> >>> >>>>> always about challenging the status quo and putting the user >> first. >> >>> >>>>> They just happened to be doing that by building a computer. > (Now >> a >> >>> >>>>> phone, a watch, etc, etc...) >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> The thing about stating your values up front is that you > attract >> >>> >>>>> people with the same values. They "believe" in you and what >> you're >> >>> >>>>> doing in a very emotional way. >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> Compare this to Dell. You know anybody who's passionate about >> Dell? >> >>> >>>>> "Hey, we build powerful computers. Buy one." Okay sure, maybe. >> But >> >>> I'm >> >>> >>>>> not gonna *feel* anything about it. >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> So, let's talk about Couch. >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> I think that our core value is giving people the power to do > what >> >>> they >> >>> >>>>> want with their data. To keep it where ever they want. To move > it >> >>> >>>>> where ever they want. And for this to be as easy as possible. >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> Here's a sample formulation >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> "We want to put your data in your hands. We're gonna do that > by >> >>> >>>>> making it easy to move your anywhere you want. We just happen > to >> >>> >>>>> building a database." >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> arkos has a great slogan: "Your data, your rules" >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> This is where we need to be heading. This isn't about syncing. >> This >> >>> is >> >>> >>>>> about giving people the power to move their data into and out > of >> >>> >>>>> whatever environment, platform, and device they want to. >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> Data autonomy? >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> Some other notes: >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> Mikeal Rogers said to me that after working with Couch, he >> started to >> >>> >>>>> take it for granted that getting data back out of a database >> should >> >>> be >> >>> >>>>> as easy as putting it in. (But apparently this isn't so) He > said >> this >> >>> >>>>> was a unique feature of CouchDB. >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> Tom Dale once said something about the need to share and >> distribute >> >>> >>>>> data. No silos. Host individual sites in your own server. > Can't >> >>> >>>>> remember the context, just have it in my notes. >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> But this ties into the IndieWebCamp concept of POSSE. >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> And also dovetails with OfflineFirst, things like unhosted, > and >> the >> >>> >>>>> growing movement of people who want local data ownership. >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> Also think about the fact that CouchDB is more like Git than >> >>> >>>>> PostgreSQL. (Thanks Jan, for the analogy.) Decentralised data, >> >>> >>>>> workflows, syncing, etc. What is this about really? It's about >> >>> >>>>> enabling decentralised data management. Ties into the same >> concept. >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> Access your data anywhere >> >>> >>>>> Access your data offline >> >>> >>>>> Decentralised data management >> >>> >>>>> Puts you in control of your own data >> >>> >>>>> Local data ownership >> >>> >>>>> Grants you data autonomy >> >>> >>>>> Your data, your rules >> >>> >>>>> Puts your data back in your hands >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> ^ Not slogans, just prompts. >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> What's our why? If we find that, we'll have our slogan. >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> On 30 October 2014 19:45, Andy Ellicott <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>>>>> I think I read something recently that there's more mobile > than >> web >> >>> app development happening these days, so "web" might end up sounding >> >>> outdated. >> >>> >>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>> Random input: >> >>> >>>>>> "Synchronicity" is a word we're using to differentiate >> >>> couchdb-style dbs from others. Feel free to reuse or take > inspiration >> from >> >>> that...or not :) >> >>> >>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>> Andy >> >>> >>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> >>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014, at 2:35 PM, Alexander Shorin < >> [email protected]> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>> Will repeat myself on IRC: >> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>> "A database for the web" isn't good one since PouchDB is >> eventually >> >>> >>>>>>> more "database for the web" than CouchDB now. >> >>> >>>>>>> We need something more fresh, unique and collision safe as >> like as >> >>> >>>>>>> "Time to relax!" was - it's hard to associate any other >> database >> >>> with >> >>> >>>>>>> the same motto. >> >>> >>>>>>> -- >> >>> >>>>>>> ,,,^..^,,, >> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Joan Touzet > <[email protected]> >> >>> wrote: >> >>> >>>>>>>> Coming out of the logo discussion, it seems 2.0 may be the >> >>> >>>>>>>> right time to consider a new motto, replacing "Time to > relax." >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> PouchDB is "The database that syncs." >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> On http://couchdb.apache.org/ today, "A database for the > web" >> >>> >>>>>>>> is the most prominent motto, bigger than "Relax." >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> Jan and I will be on stage in 3 weeks in Budapest to > present >> >>> >>>>>>>> plans for CouchDB 2.0. I'd love to make an announcement of > a >> >>> >>>>>>>> new motto there, even if we don't have a new logo (or >> consensus >> >>> >>>>>>>> on one) by that time. >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> Thoughts, suggestions, comments? >> >>> >>>>>>>> >> >>> >>>>>>>> -Joan >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> >> >>> >>>>> -- >> >>> >>>>> Noah Slater >> >>> >>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> -- >> >>> >> Noah Slater >> >>> >> https://twitter.com/nslater >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > -- >> >>> > Noah Slater >> >>> > https://twitter.com/nslater >> >>> >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Noah Slater >> > https://twitter.com/nslater >> >> >> >> -- >> Noah Slater >> https://twitter.com/nslater >> >> >> >
