Hey Ruben, thanks for bringing this on list. I think it's a good idea to start building local communities and we need more of them. I also agree with Chris, that this would cause more work but in my opinion, the benefits from a growing number of adopters are bigger than the capacity we lost to establish and maintain the usergroups.
In my opinion we also need a german adopters community. I can remember talkin with Olaf about it but we never get it done. It's good to have the spanish folks for prototyping and im sure they will share their experience to cut down the effort we need to achieve this for other languages. I hope we can do this for german in the foreseeable future. Nils > Well, I don't know if it's the best way or not, but it's the best I can > think of. :P > > See, no adopter starts asking questions without putting their hands on the > system first. But they need to get interested enough in the project first. > I'm not saying that they won't be if the docs are in English, but they > will > be *more* if the docs are also in Spanish. > > Also, once they are actively involved, there are specific areas of > interest > for the sub-community, most of them because the high-education system in > Spain, and the "class policies" (so to speak) in particular are so > different > as those in the Anglo-Saxon world. For instance, unscheduled recordings > are > VERY important for us, due to our particular distribution of classes and > sporadic events. Being able to discuss those topics in a separate section, > where the most interested people participate. As it happens those people > shares a common language, the discussion is more natural when it's held in > that language, rather than English. That's all. > > I don't think I have to explain the benefits of having a "support line" > (a.k.a. mail list) in the adopters' mother tongue. > > The question is: can we do without any of those things? Of course, we can. > But are they really helpful? Absolutely. And can we manage them? I'm > convinced it will not be such a big deal, as the Spanish-speaking > community > (notice this is not limited to Spain only, but to many more countries) > grows. > > If you are not still convinced (you don't have to, of course), I'm willing > to discuss the pros and cons of this proposal, either here or by chat, > etc. > I want this to be beneficial for the Community, and not just for a subset > of > it. > > Regards > Rubén > > El 20 de septiembre de 2011 00:15, Christopher Brooks > <[email protected]>escribió: > >> Ruben, >> >> Sorry, I think I wasn't clear. I just wanted to elicit discussion to >> see if this was the best way of doing it. I think it's great to both >> be providing people support in their language of choice and to be >> bringing more people into the community. >> >> I just thought it was odd in that we had a separate mailing list and >> that seems to be a good thing, but that we would be having a >> non-separate wiki. E.g. why have one thing separate and not the other; >> is there something special about the mailing list that makes it good to >> keep separate (maybe that one is pushed instead of searched for?) >> >> Either way, I've got no misgivings about the proposal, please continue >> with the good work, it's awesome to see that localization is happening, >> >> Chris >> >> >> On Mon, 19 Sep 2011 23:55:42 +0200 >> Rubén Pérez <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > Chris, >> > >> > El 19 de septiembre de 2011 18:54, Christopher Brooks >> > <[email protected]>escribió: >> > >> > > Ruben, >> > > >> > > > We certainly do NOT want to create a parallel wiki. This is not a >> > > > mere translation, but a starting point for newcomers, in their own >> > > > language. Of course, the official language in the Community is >> > > >> > > Do you know of any similar endeavours for other projects? Seems >> > > like a not uncommon issue. >> > > >> > >> > Judy gave you one, the Spanish Sakai Group ( >> > >> https://confluence.sakaiproject.org/display/SPANISH/S2G+-+Spanish+Sakai+Group >> ). >> > As you can see, it's a Confluence-based wiki, just like our own. And >> > since your Spanish may be a little rusty (:P) let me translate some >> > excerpts in the first paragraphs: >> > >> > >> > > El grupo S2G es un grupo oficial de la plataforma Sakai, destinado >> > > a la comunidad de usuarios y desarrolladores de Sakai cuyo lenguaje >> > > es el español. >> > > Esta página intenta ser un punto de entrada para acceder de forma >> > > ordenada a toda la información relevante sobre la comunidad. >> > >> > [...] >> > >> > La comunidad dispone de una lista de correo en idioma español donde es >> > > posible preguntar cualquier duda sobre Sakai. Es la mejor fuente de >> > > información que existe actualmente en idioma español. Apúntate a >> > > nuestra lista de >> > > correo<http://collab.sakaiproject.org/mailman/listinfo/spanish-sakai> >> . >> > > Dentro de la comunidad existe un subgrupo llamado S2U (Spanish Sakai >> > > Universities) >> > > <https://confluence.sakaiproject.org/display/SPANISH/S2U> formado >> > > por universidades españolas para afrontar proyectos comunes. >> > >> > *The S2G group is an official Sakai platform group, destined to the >> > community of Sakai users and developers whose language is Spanish.* >> > *This page intends to be a starting point to access all the relevant >> > information about the community in an ordered way.* >> > *[...]* >> > *The community has a mailing list in Spanish language at its >> > disposal, where it is possible to ask any doubt about Sakai. It is >> > the best existing source of information in Spanish language. Join our >> > mail list. *[link] *There is a sub-group whitin the community called >> > S2U (Spanish Sakai Universities) *[link] *to confront common >> > projects.* >> > >> > If you dive a little bit in the links, you'll see that they point to >> > pages written in Spanish, but going one or two levels deeper (i.e. >> > browsing more specific topics) the links end up pointing to the >> > official resources in English. And even though ALL the documentation >> > was translated into Spanish, it wouldn't be a bigger problem, as long >> > as it was version-tagged as the English one. >> > >> > Another example is Moodle, which provides a Spanish forum ( >> > http://moodle.org/course/view.php?id=11), and has a complete online >> > documentation in Spanish, supported by the community (as shown by the >> > link "Documentación en castellano - ¡colabora!" "Documentation in >> > Castilian - contribute!"). Please note that use of the term >> > "Castilian" is a common convention to refer to the whole >> > Spanish-speaking community, including Center- and South America, as >> > well as Spain. In our case, there are no Spanish-speaking adopters >> > outside Spain, but we are planning to do some evangelization in the >> > upcoming months. Considering that UVigo (Vicente, to give due credit) >> > got some South-American adopters of our home-made >> > video-repository-and-publishing-framework PuMuKIT, I foresee that we >> > could draw some interest on the project and get new institutions >> > involved (I hope I don't jinx that meeting by saying this! :P) >> > >> > And just to challenge the idea of separation; why a separate mailing >> > > list, but not a separate wiki? >> > >> > >> > Exactly, why? The opencastES mail list ( >> > >> http://wiki.media.uvigo.es/display/OpencastES/Archivo+lista+de+email+Opencast-ES >> ) >> > has >> > been around for one year and a half now, providing support for those >> > Spanish adopters who prefer to get help in their own language. Some >> > of them can't speak English very well, but some others, while being >> > able to keep a normal conversation in that language, just prefer to >> > communicate in their own language because they feel more comfortable >> > and can go on a higher detail which they wouldn't be able to express >> > in a language which isn't theirs. I'm a living example of what >> > happens when one wants to explain something very specific and the >> > right words just don't come to your mind. Right now the Spanish >> > adopters have two "entry barriers" for Matterhorn and the Opencast >> > community: the inherent complexity of the project itself AND the >> > difficulty to engage to some community, as interesting as it may >> > seem, just because it is not explained in your own language. >> > >> > >> > > Or the opposite, why a single wiki, but >> > > separate mailing lists? >> > > >> > >> > That's exactly my proposal. Why a single wiki, when the mailing list >> > has proven that there's an specific sub-community with specific >> > interests? I'm repeating the same again and again: if we have the >> > opportunity to make easy for the adopters to engage in the community, >> > by guiding their first steps using their own language, why shouldn't >> > we? >> > >> > >> > > I don't mean to suggest native language support isn't valuable, just >> > > want to solicit the best way of going about it. >> > > >> > > Chris >> > > >> > >> > It's OK if you don't agree with this (totally or partially), but I >> > would like at least know which part(s) are those you don't like, so I >> > can at least offer a better explanation. Show me your best punch, >> > c'mon! ;-) >> > >> > Regards >> > Rubén >> > >> > >> > > -- >> > > Christopher Brooks, BSc, MSc >> > > ARIES Laboratory, University of Saskatchewan >> > > >> > > Web: http://www.cs.usask.ca/~cab938 >> > > Phone: 1.306.966.1442 >> > > Mail: Advanced Research in Intelligent Educational Systems >> > > Laboratory Department of Computer Science >> > > University of Saskatchewan >> > > 176 Thorvaldson Building >> > > 110 Science Place >> > > Saskatoon, SK >> > > S7N 5C9 >> > > >> >> >> >> -- >> Christopher Brooks, BSc, MSc >> ARIES Laboratory, University of Saskatchewan >> >> Web: http://www.cs.usask.ca/~cab938 >> Phone: 1.306.966.1442 >> Mail: Advanced Research in Intelligent Educational Systems Laboratory >> Department of Computer Science >> University of Saskatchewan >> 176 Thorvaldson Building >> 110 Science Place >> Saskatoon, SK >> S7N 5C9 >> > _______________________________________________ > Matterhorn mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.opencastproject.org/mailman/listinfo/matterhorn > > > To unsubscribe please email > [email protected] > _______________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Matterhorn mailing list [email protected] http://lists.opencastproject.org/mailman/listinfo/matterhorn To unsubscribe please email [email protected] _______________________________________________
