Hey Vinod, I went ahead and added perms individually for you on the wiki. Let me know if that worked.
Cheers, Chris ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. Senior Computer Scientist NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 Email: [email protected] WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ -----Original Message----- From: <Mattmann>, jpluser <[email protected]> Reply-To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Date: Monday, June 17, 2013 5:37 PM To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Release process on wiki >Hey Vinod, > >I can assign individual permission to you I think, but I can't modify >the mesos-committers group. > >I'll raise an issue with infra@ and see if they can give me the ability >to modify the mesos-committers group (wiki admin perms). I have space >admin perms atm. > >Cheers, >Chris > >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >Senior Computer Scientist >NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >Email: [email protected] >WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Vinod Kone <[email protected]> >Reply-To: "[email protected]" ><[email protected]> >Date: Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:13 PM >To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Release process on wiki > >>Btw Chris, do you have the ability to grant me edit access for the mesos >>wiki page? I would like to use it to capture some stuff (e.g., new >>feature >>design)? If you don't I can create an INFRA ticket? >> >> >>On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) < >>[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Heya Vinod, >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> From: Vinod Kone <[email protected]> >>> Reply-To: "[email protected]" >>><[email protected] >>> > >>> Date: Friday, June 14, 2013 3:12 PM >>> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Release process on wiki >>> >>> >Thanks Chris for your POV. I think we all agree that Wiki is more user >>> >friendly than git. But my (and likely others) concerns are >>> > >>> >1) If docs are editable on both wiki and git, then which one is the >>> >authoritative source? If one of them goes stale, which one should the >>> >user/contributor refer to? >>> >>> Great question -- why does one have to be the authoritative source over >>> the other? It's quite possible that they won't have overlapping >>>content. >>> And if they do, it really only costs us an email to a (potentially >>> confused) >>> user pointing them at the right source. This requires us to be active >>>on >>> the dev lists and responsive and looking to help -- Mesos right now >>> definitely >>> fits that bill. I'm sure you or Ben H or Ben M or Andy or anyone else >>> (even me!) :) >>> may be able to point peeps in the right direction on that. >>> >>> > >>> >2) How to keep the docs in sync? If some one edits the docs in the >>>wiki, >>> >how do we get it into our git repo? This involves PMC/Committer to >>> >shepherd >>> >no? Then why not involve pmc/committer early and circumvent the wiki >>>edit? >>> >>> Who sez they have to be in sync? Like I said they could be overlapping >>> content, >>> or not. If they are overlapping then one can grow stale but I would >>> estimate the >>> cost function for that to be minimal. And it may be driven by our own >>> interest >>> to fix this or we may have some superstar user that fixes it for us >>>that we >>> then nominate for PMC and then sign them up for this fantastic task >>>(heh). >>> >>> > >>> >3) How easy is it to associate documentation to releases in Wiki? Its >>> >straightforward when we work in the repo. >>> >>> +1 release docs shipping with releases makes perfect sense to me. No >>>reason >>> though that there can't be complementary (even overlapping) docs on the >>> wiki. >>> No biggie. >>> >>> > >>> >Maybe, one way we could let users use wiki to contribute is, if there >>>is >>> >tooling available that can generate a ReviewBoard patch when someone >>>edits >>> >a wiki, ala github pull request to RB patch? >>> >>> Haha, yikes that sounds like work for you guys (PMC) that you don't >>>need >>> to do. >>> Let users and contributors edit the wiki to the hearts content and >>>improve >>> Apache >>> Mesos doc. The policies/procedures for what's canonical/etc. in those >>>docs >>> can be >>> less formal and more based on social norms; users' actual comments; and >>> improvements >>> that make sense to expend resources working on. >>> >>> > >>> >P.S: Open office's how to contribute to >>> >wiki< >>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Dashboard/Wiki_Editing_ >>> >Policy> >>> >looks >>> >pretty ominous to me :) >>> >>> Hehe, same to me! /me ducks from the Apache Ooo PMC members sneaking >>> around on this list lol >>> >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >>> Senior Computer Scientist >>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >>> Email: [email protected] >>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>> >>> >>> >>> > >>> > >>> >On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) < >>> >[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> >> Hi Dave, >>> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >>> >> >>> >> From: Dave Lester <[email protected]> >>> >> Reply-To: "[email protected]" >>> >><[email protected] >>> >> > >>> >> Date: Friday, June 14, 2013 11:26 AM >>> >> To: "[email protected]" >>><[email protected]> >>> >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Release process on wiki >>> >> >>> >> >On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) < >>> >> >[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> >> I would just do both. Let contributions and time >>> >> >> decide; rather than just picking one. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> >I disagree. In this case I see two distinct concerns related to >>> >> >documentation and the wiki: 1) making it clear and simple for how >>>to >>> >> >contribute to the project documentation, and 2) making it easy to >>>use >>> >>the >>> >> >documentation and get started with Mesos. >>> >> >>> >> And: >>> >> >>> >> 3) Enabling contribution to documentation (which is different from >>>#1 >>> >> [making >>> >> it clear] and from #2 [using the documentation]) >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >I personally think the latter concern much more pressing for user >>> >>growth >>> >> >at >>> >> >this time, although I do think both are important to consider. Do >>> >>others >>> >> >think the former is more important? >>> >> >>> >> I'm of the mindset having been around the foundation since 2005-, >>>and a >>> >> number >>> >> of projects that each (shipping docs with release; and keeping docs >>>in >>> >> wiki) has >>> >> their benefits and use cases. The latter allows documentation to >>>evolve >>> >> much more >>> >> rapidly and also visually (e.g., through editors like Confluence); >>> >>whereas >>> >> the >>> >> former requires someone with commit/PMC bit to shepherd the >>> >>documentation >>> >> into >>> >> the sources [giving them the potential for them to be quite stale as >>> >>those >>> >> sources >>> >> become stale]. >>> >> >>> >> However the above is a straw man.I see advantages to both and have >>>lived >>> >> them >>> >> through in a number of high and low profile open source projects. >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > As a developer who is getting starting with Mesos, having multiple >>> >> >sources >>> >> >of truth for the project (documentation stored in git, and also the >>> >>wiki) >>> >> >could be frustrating. >>> >> >>> >> Note the key word above *could*. We don't have people constantly >>>coming >>> >>to >>> >> the mailing lists complaining about this delineation. And if they >>>did, I >>> >> would >>> >> suggest to them the same (and it really depends on what their role >>>is in >>> >> the >>> >> project -- are they PMC/committer yet? are they simply a user?, >>>etc.) >>> >> >>> >> Take for example Apache Open Office -- a very formal PMC >>>organization >>> >> rightly so >>> >> due to the diversity of types and kinds of contributions -- and due >>>to >>> >>the >>> >> fact that their community wants the model that way. Imagine the >>> >>rate/types >>> >> of >>> >> documentation contribution and from all over the world with >>> >> internationalization >>> >> etc that they receive. Keeping docs in sources would be quite >>>difficult >>> >>if >>> >> updating those docs required the contributors to be PMC or committer >>>- >>> >> especially >>> >> in the case that they receive non technical documentation and >>> >> contributions from >>> >> people that will never touch SVN or Git, like ever. But they write >>> >> documentation in >>> >> e.g., some editor or wiki, and then contribute it separate of the >>> >>release >>> >> cycle of >>> >> the system. >>> >> >>> >> On the opposite extreme end, in a project with very small sources; >>>high >>> >> rate of >>> >> commit; tons of inclusivity; I can see saying look we want docs only >>>in >>> >> sources, >>> >> we don't need a wiki being a decent choice. Until the first user >>>that >>> >> cares nothing >>> >> about the sources, but only the binary, and that writes a great >>>tutorial >>> >> on the >>> >> software and wants to share it comes along. Then what's the use >>>case? >>> >>That >>> >> tutorial >>> >> has to be shepherded or brought into the sources by a committer or >>>PMC >>> >> member, creating >>> >> more work. When instead, that user could have gone to a wiki, turned >>>the >>> >> editor on, >>> >> dumped their doc into it, clicked save, and been done. It's in our >>> >> advantage to have >>> >> the docs here on ASF hardware and the bits here, in whatever form >>>they >>> >> manifest (wiki; >>> >> *.md files in Git, etc.) >>> >> >>> >> Mesos isn't on either end of these opposites, and is more in-between >>> >>like >>> >> most >>> >> projects are. For that reason along with numerous others I've >>>suggested, >>> >> it probably >>> >> makes sense to support both. >>> >> >>> >> Beyond this, it's also not a question of "shutting down" >>>documentation >>> >>on >>> >> the wiki. >>> >> That's not something really that should be dictated, nor is it very >>> >> community friendly. >>> >> I'm involved with the project, if for nothing else than teaching the >>> >> Apache way, vote'ing >>> >> on releases and mentoring. I enjoy the wiki, a lot more than I do >>> >>checking >>> >> out a source >>> >> tree, running a few git commands and then update/pushing it and >>>waiting >>> >> for it to appear >>> >> on some site. For that reason that there is at least 1 person on the >>> >> project that likes >>> >> a wiki, I'd ask, VOTE'ing to declare one versus the other defunct or >>>not >>> >> isn't very >>> >> friendly to me or anyone else that likes the wiki. I'd ask: what >>>happens >>> >> if everyone >>> >> +1s the Git docs, and -1s me? What should I do then? Stop putting >>>stuff >>> >>on >>> >> the wiki? >>> >> What if it discourages me from contributing docs? Is that good for >>> >>Mesos? >>> >> Or the community? >>> >> >>> >> >There's no search between the docs and wiki, and I'm >>> >> >not clear if there is a distinction between where I would go to >>>answer >>> >> >specific questions. When contributing documentation, I'm also not >>>sure >>> >> >which source I would contribute to. >>> >> >>> >> Hypothetical, let's support this with real use cases and data and >>> >>address >>> >> this issue should it arise when we have dozens of people beating our >>> >>door >>> >> down for searching across the wiki and docs -- furthermore, I'd >>>actually >>> >> suggest that in fact you can search across both, with Google. Google >>> >> indexes >>> >> Apache's Confluence deployment; as do they index our Git and SVN >>>repos >>> >>and >>> >> the content inside. So, you can actually search across both. B/c >>>Google >>> >>is >>> >> a >>> >> horizontal search engine and not vertical, it's harder, but it can >>>be >>> >>done. >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> >I'm in favor of using just one source. If making it easy to use the >>> >> >documentation is the priority then I think rendering markdown files >>>is >>> >>a >>> >> >fine approach for now. >>> >> >>> >> My honest suggestion: put your time and effort into improving what >>>you'd >>> >> like >>> >> (the source docs), and let me and anyone else that wants to put >>>stuff on >>> >> the >>> >> wiki do our thing too. Then, beyond that, let's add a link on both: >>>(1) >>> >> from >>> >> the wiki to git: Apache src docs; and from src docs to the wiki. >>>Done. >>> >> >>> >> Cheers, >>> >> Chris >>> >> >>> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>> >> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >>> >> Senior Computer Scientist >>> >> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >>> >> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >>> >> Email: [email protected] >>> >> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >>> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>> >> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >>> >> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >>> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >>> >
