Yup. I'm able to add pages now. Thanks Chris! Is it possible to let all the mesos committers to have mesos wiki edit access by default? Looks like whatever group is being used for mesos wiki access is not in sync with the committers of mesos.
On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) < [email protected]> wrote: > Hey Vinod, > > I went ahead and added perms individually for you on the wiki. > Let me know if that worked. > > Cheers, > Chris > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. > Senior Computer Scientist > NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA > Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 > Email: [email protected] > WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department > University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: <Mattmann>, jpluser <[email protected]> > Reply-To: "[email protected]" <[email protected] > > > Date: Monday, June 17, 2013 5:37 PM > To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Release process on wiki > > >Hey Vinod, > > > >I can assign individual permission to you I think, but I can't modify > >the mesos-committers group. > > > >I'll raise an issue with infra@ and see if they can give me the ability > >to modify the mesos-committers group (wiki admin perms). I have space > >admin perms atm. > > > >Cheers, > >Chris > > > >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. > >Senior Computer Scientist > >NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA > >Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 > >Email: [email protected] > >WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ > >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department > >University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA > >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Vinod Kone <[email protected]> > >Reply-To: "[email protected]" > ><[email protected]> > >Date: Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:13 PM > >To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > >Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Release process on wiki > > > >>Btw Chris, do you have the ability to grant me edit access for the mesos > >>wiki page? I would like to use it to capture some stuff (e.g., new > >>feature > >>design)? If you don't I can create an INFRA ticket? > >> > >> > >>On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) < > >>[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> Heya Vinod, > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> > >>> From: Vinod Kone <[email protected]> > >>> Reply-To: "[email protected]" > >>><[email protected] > >>> > > >>> Date: Friday, June 14, 2013 3:12 PM > >>> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > >>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Release process on wiki > >>> > >>> >Thanks Chris for your POV. I think we all agree that Wiki is more user > >>> >friendly than git. But my (and likely others) concerns are > >>> > > >>> >1) If docs are editable on both wiki and git, then which one is the > >>> >authoritative source? If one of them goes stale, which one should the > >>> >user/contributor refer to? > >>> > >>> Great question -- why does one have to be the authoritative source over > >>> the other? It's quite possible that they won't have overlapping > >>>content. > >>> And if they do, it really only costs us an email to a (potentially > >>> confused) > >>> user pointing them at the right source. This requires us to be active > >>>on > >>> the dev lists and responsive and looking to help -- Mesos right now > >>> definitely > >>> fits that bill. I'm sure you or Ben H or Ben M or Andy or anyone else > >>> (even me!) :) > >>> may be able to point peeps in the right direction on that. > >>> > >>> > > >>> >2) How to keep the docs in sync? If some one edits the docs in the > >>>wiki, > >>> >how do we get it into our git repo? This involves PMC/Committer to > >>> >shepherd > >>> >no? Then why not involve pmc/committer early and circumvent the wiki > >>>edit? > >>> > >>> Who sez they have to be in sync? Like I said they could be overlapping > >>> content, > >>> or not. If they are overlapping then one can grow stale but I would > >>> estimate the > >>> cost function for that to be minimal. And it may be driven by our own > >>> interest > >>> to fix this or we may have some superstar user that fixes it for us > >>>that we > >>> then nominate for PMC and then sign them up for this fantastic task > >>>(heh). > >>> > >>> > > >>> >3) How easy is it to associate documentation to releases in Wiki? Its > >>> >straightforward when we work in the repo. > >>> > >>> +1 release docs shipping with releases makes perfect sense to me. No > >>>reason > >>> though that there can't be complementary (even overlapping) docs on the > >>> wiki. > >>> No biggie. > >>> > >>> > > >>> >Maybe, one way we could let users use wiki to contribute is, if there > >>>is > >>> >tooling available that can generate a ReviewBoard patch when someone > >>>edits > >>> >a wiki, ala github pull request to RB patch? > >>> > >>> Haha, yikes that sounds like work for you guys (PMC) that you don't > >>>need > >>> to do. > >>> Let users and contributors edit the wiki to the hearts content and > >>>improve > >>> Apache > >>> Mesos doc. The policies/procedures for what's canonical/etc. in those > >>>docs > >>> can be > >>> less formal and more based on social norms; users' actual comments; and > >>> improvements > >>> that make sense to expend resources working on. > >>> > >>> > > >>> >P.S: Open office's how to contribute to > >>> >wiki< > >>> http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Dashboard/Wiki_Editing_ > >>> >Policy> > >>> >looks > >>> >pretty ominous to me :) > >>> > >>> Hehe, same to me! /me ducks from the Apache Ooo PMC members sneaking > >>> around on this list lol > >>> > >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. > >>> Senior Computer Scientist > >>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA > >>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 > >>> Email: [email protected] > >>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ > >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department > >>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA > >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> >On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) < > >>> >[email protected]> wrote: > >>> > > >>> >> Hi Dave, > >>> >> > >>> >> -----Original Message----- > >>> >> > >>> >> From: Dave Lester <[email protected]> > >>> >> Reply-To: "[email protected]" > >>> >><[email protected] > >>> >> > > >>> >> Date: Friday, June 14, 2013 11:26 AM > >>> >> To: "[email protected]" > >>><[email protected]> > >>> >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Release process on wiki > >>> >> > >>> >> >On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) < > >>> >> >[email protected]> wrote: > >>> >> > > >>> >> >> I would just do both. Let contributions and time > >>> >> >> decide; rather than just picking one. > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> >I disagree. In this case I see two distinct concerns related to > >>> >> >documentation and the wiki: 1) making it clear and simple for how > >>>to > >>> >> >contribute to the project documentation, and 2) making it easy to > >>>use > >>> >>the > >>> >> >documentation and get started with Mesos. > >>> >> > >>> >> And: > >>> >> > >>> >> 3) Enabling contribution to documentation (which is different from > >>>#1 > >>> >> [making > >>> >> it clear] and from #2 [using the documentation]) > >>> >> > >>> >> > > >>> >> >I personally think the latter concern much more pressing for user > >>> >>growth > >>> >> >at > >>> >> >this time, although I do think both are important to consider. Do > >>> >>others > >>> >> >think the former is more important? > >>> >> > >>> >> I'm of the mindset having been around the foundation since 2005-, > >>>and a > >>> >> number > >>> >> of projects that each (shipping docs with release; and keeping docs > >>>in > >>> >> wiki) has > >>> >> their benefits and use cases. The latter allows documentation to > >>>evolve > >>> >> much more > >>> >> rapidly and also visually (e.g., through editors like Confluence); > >>> >>whereas > >>> >> the > >>> >> former requires someone with commit/PMC bit to shepherd the > >>> >>documentation > >>> >> into > >>> >> the sources [giving them the potential for them to be quite stale as > >>> >>those > >>> >> sources > >>> >> become stale]. > >>> >> > >>> >> However the above is a straw man.I see advantages to both and have > >>>lived > >>> >> them > >>> >> through in a number of high and low profile open source projects. > >>> >> > >>> >> > > >>> >> > As a developer who is getting starting with Mesos, having multiple > >>> >> >sources > >>> >> >of truth for the project (documentation stored in git, and also the > >>> >>wiki) > >>> >> >could be frustrating. > >>> >> > >>> >> Note the key word above *could*. We don't have people constantly > >>>coming > >>> >>to > >>> >> the mailing lists complaining about this delineation. And if they > >>>did, I > >>> >> would > >>> >> suggest to them the same (and it really depends on what their role > >>>is in > >>> >> the > >>> >> project -- are they PMC/committer yet? are they simply a user?, > >>>etc.) > >>> >> > >>> >> Take for example Apache Open Office -- a very formal PMC > >>>organization > >>> >> rightly so > >>> >> due to the diversity of types and kinds of contributions -- and due > >>>to > >>> >>the > >>> >> fact that their community wants the model that way. Imagine the > >>> >>rate/types > >>> >> of > >>> >> documentation contribution and from all over the world with > >>> >> internationalization > >>> >> etc that they receive. Keeping docs in sources would be quite > >>>difficult > >>> >>if > >>> >> updating those docs required the contributors to be PMC or committer > >>>- > >>> >> especially > >>> >> in the case that they receive non technical documentation and > >>> >> contributions from > >>> >> people that will never touch SVN or Git, like ever. But they write > >>> >> documentation in > >>> >> e.g., some editor or wiki, and then contribute it separate of the > >>> >>release > >>> >> cycle of > >>> >> the system. > >>> >> > >>> >> On the opposite extreme end, in a project with very small sources; > >>>high > >>> >> rate of > >>> >> commit; tons of inclusivity; I can see saying look we want docs only > >>>in > >>> >> sources, > >>> >> we don't need a wiki being a decent choice. Until the first user > >>>that > >>> >> cares nothing > >>> >> about the sources, but only the binary, and that writes a great > >>>tutorial > >>> >> on the > >>> >> software and wants to share it comes along. Then what's the use > >>>case? > >>> >>That > >>> >> tutorial > >>> >> has to be shepherded or brought into the sources by a committer or > >>>PMC > >>> >> member, creating > >>> >> more work. When instead, that user could have gone to a wiki, turned > >>>the > >>> >> editor on, > >>> >> dumped their doc into it, clicked save, and been done. It's in our > >>> >> advantage to have > >>> >> the docs here on ASF hardware and the bits here, in whatever form > >>>they > >>> >> manifest (wiki; > >>> >> *.md files in Git, etc.) > >>> >> > >>> >> Mesos isn't on either end of these opposites, and is more in-between > >>> >>like > >>> >> most > >>> >> projects are. For that reason along with numerous others I've > >>>suggested, > >>> >> it probably > >>> >> makes sense to support both. > >>> >> > >>> >> Beyond this, it's also not a question of "shutting down" > >>>documentation > >>> >>on > >>> >> the wiki. > >>> >> That's not something really that should be dictated, nor is it very > >>> >> community friendly. > >>> >> I'm involved with the project, if for nothing else than teaching the > >>> >> Apache way, vote'ing > >>> >> on releases and mentoring. I enjoy the wiki, a lot more than I do > >>> >>checking > >>> >> out a source > >>> >> tree, running a few git commands and then update/pushing it and > >>>waiting > >>> >> for it to appear > >>> >> on some site. For that reason that there is at least 1 person on the > >>> >> project that likes > >>> >> a wiki, I'd ask, VOTE'ing to declare one versus the other defunct or > >>>not > >>> >> isn't very > >>> >> friendly to me or anyone else that likes the wiki. I'd ask: what > >>>happens > >>> >> if everyone > >>> >> +1s the Git docs, and -1s me? What should I do then? Stop putting > >>>stuff > >>> >>on > >>> >> the wiki? > >>> >> What if it discourages me from contributing docs? Is that good for > >>> >>Mesos? > >>> >> Or the community? > >>> >> > >>> >> >There's no search between the docs and wiki, and I'm > >>> >> >not clear if there is a distinction between where I would go to > >>>answer > >>> >> >specific questions. When contributing documentation, I'm also not > >>>sure > >>> >> >which source I would contribute to. > >>> >> > >>> >> Hypothetical, let's support this with real use cases and data and > >>> >>address > >>> >> this issue should it arise when we have dozens of people beating our > >>> >>door > >>> >> down for searching across the wiki and docs -- furthermore, I'd > >>>actually > >>> >> suggest that in fact you can search across both, with Google. Google > >>> >> indexes > >>> >> Apache's Confluence deployment; as do they index our Git and SVN > >>>repos > >>> >>and > >>> >> the content inside. So, you can actually search across both. B/c > >>>Google > >>> >>is > >>> >> a > >>> >> horizontal search engine and not vertical, it's harder, but it can > >>>be > >>> >>done. > >>> >> > >>> >> > > >>> >> >I'm in favor of using just one source. If making it easy to use the > >>> >> >documentation is the priority then I think rendering markdown files > >>>is > >>> >>a > >>> >> >fine approach for now. > >>> >> > >>> >> My honest suggestion: put your time and effort into improving what > >>>you'd > >>> >> like > >>> >> (the source docs), and let me and anyone else that wants to put > >>>stuff on > >>> >> the > >>> >> wiki do our thing too. Then, beyond that, let's add a link on both: > >>>(1) > >>> >> from > >>> >> the wiki to git: Apache src docs; and from src docs to the wiki. > >>>Done. > >>> >> > >>> >> Cheers, > >>> >> Chris > >>> >> > >>> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >>> >> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. > >>> >> Senior Computer Scientist > >>> >> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA > >>> >> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 > >>> >> Email: [email protected] > >>> >> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ > >>> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >>> >> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department > >>> >> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA > >>> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> > >>> > > > >
