Hey Vinod, It's not possible at the moment mainly b/c the Confluence wiki is being upgraded over the next week, etc. But, I talked to Gav in infra@ and he says contact them after that.
Cheers, Chris ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. Senior Computer Scientist NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 Email: [email protected] WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ -----Original Message----- From: Vinod Kone <[email protected]> Reply-To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Date: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 10:27 AM To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Release process on wiki >Yup. I'm able to add pages now. Thanks Chris! > >Is it possible to let all the mesos committers to have mesos wiki edit >access by default? Looks like whatever group is being used for mesos wiki >access is not in sync with the committers of mesos. > > >On Tue, Jun 18, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) < >[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hey Vinod, >> >> I went ahead and added perms individually for you on the wiki. >> Let me know if that worked. >> >> Cheers, >> Chris >> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >> Senior Computer Scientist >> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >> Email: [email protected] >> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: <Mattmann>, jpluser <[email protected]> >> Reply-To: "[email protected]" >><[email protected] >> > >> Date: Monday, June 17, 2013 5:37 PM >> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Release process on wiki >> >> >Hey Vinod, >> > >> >I can assign individual permission to you I think, but I can't modify >> >the mesos-committers group. >> > >> >I'll raise an issue with infra@ and see if they can give me the ability >> >to modify the mesos-committers group (wiki admin perms). I have space >> >admin perms atm. >> > >> >Cheers, >> >Chris >> > >> >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >> >Senior Computer Scientist >> >NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >> >Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >> >Email: [email protected] >> >WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >> >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >> >University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >> >++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: Vinod Kone <[email protected]> >> >Reply-To: "[email protected]" >> ><[email protected]> >> >Date: Sunday, June 16, 2013 9:13 PM >> >To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> >Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Release process on wiki >> > >> >>Btw Chris, do you have the ability to grant me edit access for the >>mesos >> >>wiki page? I would like to use it to capture some stuff (e.g., new >> >>feature >> >>design)? If you don't I can create an INFRA ticket? >> >> >> >> >> >>On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 7:19 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) < >> >>[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Heya Vinod, >> >>> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >> >>> >> >>> From: Vinod Kone <[email protected]> >> >>> Reply-To: "[email protected]" >> >>><[email protected] >> >>> > >> >>> Date: Friday, June 14, 2013 3:12 PM >> >>> To: "[email protected]" >><[email protected]> >> >>> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Release process on wiki >> >>> >> >>> >Thanks Chris for your POV. I think we all agree that Wiki is more >>user >> >>> >friendly than git. But my (and likely others) concerns are >> >>> > >> >>> >1) If docs are editable on both wiki and git, then which one is the >> >>> >authoritative source? If one of them goes stale, which one should >>the >> >>> >user/contributor refer to? >> >>> >> >>> Great question -- why does one have to be the authoritative source >>over >> >>> the other? It's quite possible that they won't have overlapping >> >>>content. >> >>> And if they do, it really only costs us an email to a (potentially >> >>> confused) >> >>> user pointing them at the right source. This requires us to be >>active >> >>>on >> >>> the dev lists and responsive and looking to help -- Mesos right now >> >>> definitely >> >>> fits that bill. I'm sure you or Ben H or Ben M or Andy or anyone >>else >> >>> (even me!) :) >> >>> may be able to point peeps in the right direction on that. >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >2) How to keep the docs in sync? If some one edits the docs in the >> >>>wiki, >> >>> >how do we get it into our git repo? This involves PMC/Committer to >> >>> >shepherd >> >>> >no? Then why not involve pmc/committer early and circumvent the >>wiki >> >>>edit? >> >>> >> >>> Who sez they have to be in sync? Like I said they could be >>overlapping >> >>> content, >> >>> or not. If they are overlapping then one can grow stale but I would >> >>> estimate the >> >>> cost function for that to be minimal. And it may be driven by our >>own >> >>> interest >> >>> to fix this or we may have some superstar user that fixes it for us >> >>>that we >> >>> then nominate for PMC and then sign them up for this fantastic task >> >>>(heh). >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >3) How easy is it to associate documentation to releases in Wiki? >>Its >> >>> >straightforward when we work in the repo. >> >>> >> >>> +1 release docs shipping with releases makes perfect sense to me. No >> >>>reason >> >>> though that there can't be complementary (even overlapping) docs on >>the >> >>> wiki. >> >>> No biggie. >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >Maybe, one way we could let users use wiki to contribute is, if >>there >> >>>is >> >>> >tooling available that can generate a ReviewBoard patch when >>someone >> >>>edits >> >>> >a wiki, ala github pull request to RB patch? >> >>> >> >>> Haha, yikes that sounds like work for you guys (PMC) that you don't >> >>>need >> >>> to do. >> >>> Let users and contributors edit the wiki to the hearts content and >> >>>improve >> >>> Apache >> >>> Mesos doc. The policies/procedures for what's canonical/etc. in >>those >> >>>docs >> >>> can be >> >>> less formal and more based on social norms; users' actual comments; >>and >> >>> improvements >> >>> that make sense to expend resources working on. >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >P.S: Open office's how to contribute to >> >>> >wiki< >> >>> >>http://wiki.openoffice.org/wiki/Documentation/Dashboard/Wiki_Editing_ >> >>> >Policy> >> >>> >looks >> >>> >pretty ominous to me :) >> >>> >> >>> Hehe, same to me! /me ducks from the Apache Ooo PMC members sneaking >> >>> around on this list lol >> >>> >> >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >> >>> Senior Computer Scientist >> >>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >> >>> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >> >>> Email: [email protected] >> >>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >> >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >>> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >> >>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >> >>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> >On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) < >> >>> >[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> >> Hi Dave, >> >>> >> >> >>> >> -----Original Message----- >> >>> >> >> >>> >> From: Dave Lester <[email protected]> >> >>> >> Reply-To: "[email protected]" >> >>> >><[email protected] >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> Date: Friday, June 14, 2013 11:26 AM >> >>> >> To: "[email protected]" >> >>><[email protected]> >> >>> >> Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Release process on wiki >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 7:29 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (398J) < >> >>> >> >[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >> I would just do both. Let contributions and time >> >>> >> >> decide; rather than just picking one. >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >I disagree. In this case I see two distinct concerns related to >> >>> >> >documentation and the wiki: 1) making it clear and simple for >>how >> >>>to >> >>> >> >contribute to the project documentation, and 2) making it easy >>to >> >>>use >> >>> >>the >> >>> >> >documentation and get started with Mesos. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> And: >> >>> >> >> >>> >> 3) Enabling contribution to documentation (which is different >>from >> >>>#1 >> >>> >> [making >> >>> >> it clear] and from #2 [using the documentation]) >> >>> >> >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >I personally think the latter concern much more pressing for >>user >> >>> >>growth >> >>> >> >at >> >>> >> >this time, although I do think both are important to consider. >>Do >> >>> >>others >> >>> >> >think the former is more important? >> >>> >> >> >>> >> I'm of the mindset having been around the foundation since 2005-, >> >>>and a >> >>> >> number >> >>> >> of projects that each (shipping docs with release; and keeping >>docs >> >>>in >> >>> >> wiki) has >> >>> >> their benefits and use cases. The latter allows documentation to >> >>>evolve >> >>> >> much more >> >>> >> rapidly and also visually (e.g., through editors like >>Confluence); >> >>> >>whereas >> >>> >> the >> >>> >> former requires someone with commit/PMC bit to shepherd the >> >>> >>documentation >> >>> >> into >> >>> >> the sources [giving them the potential for them to be quite >>stale as >> >>> >>those >> >>> >> sources >> >>> >> become stale]. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> However the above is a straw man.I see advantages to both and >>have >> >>>lived >> >>> >> them >> >>> >> through in a number of high and low profile open source projects. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > As a developer who is getting starting with Mesos, having >>multiple >> >>> >> >sources >> >>> >> >of truth for the project (documentation stored in git, and also >>the >> >>> >>wiki) >> >>> >> >could be frustrating. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Note the key word above *could*. We don't have people constantly >> >>>coming >> >>> >>to >> >>> >> the mailing lists complaining about this delineation. And if they >> >>>did, I >> >>> >> would >> >>> >> suggest to them the same (and it really depends on what their >>role >> >>>is in >> >>> >> the >> >>> >> project -- are they PMC/committer yet? are they simply a user?, >> >>>etc.) >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Take for example Apache Open Office -- a very formal PMC >> >>>organization >> >>> >> rightly so >> >>> >> due to the diversity of types and kinds of contributions -- and >>due >> >>>to >> >>> >>the >> >>> >> fact that their community wants the model that way. Imagine the >> >>> >>rate/types >> >>> >> of >> >>> >> documentation contribution and from all over the world with >> >>> >> internationalization >> >>> >> etc that they receive. Keeping docs in sources would be quite >> >>>difficult >> >>> >>if >> >>> >> updating those docs required the contributors to be PMC or >>committer >> >>>- >> >>> >> especially >> >>> >> in the case that they receive non technical documentation and >> >>> >> contributions from >> >>> >> people that will never touch SVN or Git, like ever. But they >>write >> >>> >> documentation in >> >>> >> e.g., some editor or wiki, and then contribute it separate of the >> >>> >>release >> >>> >> cycle of >> >>> >> the system. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> On the opposite extreme end, in a project with very small >>sources; >> >>>high >> >>> >> rate of >> >>> >> commit; tons of inclusivity; I can see saying look we want docs >>only >> >>>in >> >>> >> sources, >> >>> >> we don't need a wiki being a decent choice. Until the first user >> >>>that >> >>> >> cares nothing >> >>> >> about the sources, but only the binary, and that writes a great >> >>>tutorial >> >>> >> on the >> >>> >> software and wants to share it comes along. Then what's the use >> >>>case? >> >>> >>That >> >>> >> tutorial >> >>> >> has to be shepherded or brought into the sources by a committer >>or >> >>>PMC >> >>> >> member, creating >> >>> >> more work. When instead, that user could have gone to a wiki, >>turned >> >>>the >> >>> >> editor on, >> >>> >> dumped their doc into it, clicked save, and been done. It's in >>our >> >>> >> advantage to have >> >>> >> the docs here on ASF hardware and the bits here, in whatever form >> >>>they >> >>> >> manifest (wiki; >> >>> >> *.md files in Git, etc.) >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Mesos isn't on either end of these opposites, and is more >>in-between >> >>> >>like >> >>> >> most >> >>> >> projects are. For that reason along with numerous others I've >> >>>suggested, >> >>> >> it probably >> >>> >> makes sense to support both. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Beyond this, it's also not a question of "shutting down" >> >>>documentation >> >>> >>on >> >>> >> the wiki. >> >>> >> That's not something really that should be dictated, nor is it >>very >> >>> >> community friendly. >> >>> >> I'm involved with the project, if for nothing else than teaching >>the >> >>> >> Apache way, vote'ing >> >>> >> on releases and mentoring. I enjoy the wiki, a lot more than I do >> >>> >>checking >> >>> >> out a source >> >>> >> tree, running a few git commands and then update/pushing it and >> >>>waiting >> >>> >> for it to appear >> >>> >> on some site. For that reason that there is at least 1 person on >>the >> >>> >> project that likes >> >>> >> a wiki, I'd ask, VOTE'ing to declare one versus the other >>defunct or >> >>>not >> >>> >> isn't very >> >>> >> friendly to me or anyone else that likes the wiki. I'd ask: what >> >>>happens >> >>> >> if everyone >> >>> >> +1s the Git docs, and -1s me? What should I do then? Stop putting >> >>>stuff >> >>> >>on >> >>> >> the wiki? >> >>> >> What if it discourages me from contributing docs? Is that good >>for >> >>> >>Mesos? >> >>> >> Or the community? >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >There's no search between the docs and wiki, and I'm >> >>> >> >not clear if there is a distinction between where I would go to >> >>>answer >> >>> >> >specific questions. When contributing documentation, I'm also >>not >> >>>sure >> >>> >> >which source I would contribute to. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Hypothetical, let's support this with real use cases and data and >> >>> >>address >> >>> >> this issue should it arise when we have dozens of people beating >>our >> >>> >>door >> >>> >> down for searching across the wiki and docs -- furthermore, I'd >> >>>actually >> >>> >> suggest that in fact you can search across both, with Google. >>Google >> >>> >> indexes >> >>> >> Apache's Confluence deployment; as do they index our Git and SVN >> >>>repos >> >>> >>and >> >>> >> the content inside. So, you can actually search across both. B/c >> >>>Google >> >>> >>is >> >>> >> a >> >>> >> horizontal search engine and not vertical, it's harder, but it >>can >> >>>be >> >>> >>done. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> >I'm in favor of using just one source. If making it easy to use >>the >> >>> >> >documentation is the priority then I think rendering markdown >>files >> >>>is >> >>> >>a >> >>> >> >fine approach for now. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> My honest suggestion: put your time and effort into improving >>what >> >>>you'd >> >>> >> like >> >>> >> (the source docs), and let me and anyone else that wants to put >> >>>stuff on >> >>> >> the >> >>> >> wiki do our thing too. Then, beyond that, let's add a link on >>both: >> >>>(1) >> >>> >> from >> >>> >> the wiki to git: Apache src docs; and from src docs to the wiki. >> >>>Done. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Cheers, >> >>> >> Chris >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >>> >> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. >> >>> >> Senior Computer Scientist >> >>> >> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA >> >>> >> Office: 171-266B, Mailstop: 171-246 >> >>> >> Email: [email protected] >> >>> >> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ >> >>> >> >>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >>> >> Adjunct Assistant Professor, Computer Science Department >> >>> >> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA >> >>> >> >>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> > >> >>
