One has to speculate in all this that poor old Chazzer has fallen for the ultimate anthropomorphic myth in all this. A few words with my old dog would have cured him. I rather like to think that Tom would have wanted to go out in the middle of a stolen bag of cakes caper (of which there were many), but old age got to him first. I'm not sure we can even claim to think with words Pat - some other gunk seems to go on in some brains, including thinking with shape. In the end, the idea that we only have a notion of a world that began with fossil record and memory "sometime" is needed for the totalising subjectivity of hard anthropomorphism - this at least lacks utility as all solipsisms do. Why would an unobserved tree bother to fall at all. let alone bleat out some noise?
On 14 Jan, 10:50, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > Inded Pat, and the reason I asked such questions was to highlight that > if a squirell was to witness such an event, and if it could talk to > us, it is fair to assume that when we asked wheter or not it is true > that a tree feel in the woods it would answer, why yes, yes it did. > > On 14 Jan, 10:36, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > On 13 Jan, 18:08, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Which in what way answers my questions? > > > > If a tree falls in the woods and there are no humans there does it > > > make a sound? > > > > What if the squirrels witnessed the tree falling, does it make a sound > > > then? > > > And you know as well as I do, that the production of sound waves > > generated by a falling tree is not governed by the presence of audio > > equipment, whether artificial or biological of ANY species, to record > > the event. The dog could well think in 'barks' rather than words. > > And I'll happily admit my speculation. I feel pretty safe in the fact > > that the dog thinks. I think in words because (I assume) I use words > > to communicate to others of my species. Dogs bark to one another AND > > us (and, in turn, we 'speak' to dogs), so one might assume they think > > in barks. It's hardly a grand leap. > > > > On 13 Jan, 17:46, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On Jan 13, 12:55 pm, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Heh and you really need to read each word and not just skim. Coz if > > > > > you had you would have seen these words: > > > > > > 'The truth from my perspective is that I'm a wind up merchant.' > > > > > > Thats me thinking not the dog. The truth as far as I'm concered is > > > > > that I first offer the dog a bone and then I take it away. The truth > > > > > from the dogs perspective is that I first offer the dog a bone and > > > > > then I take it away. Or are you trying to tell me that dog actualy > > > > > has no knowledge of what actions I took, that the dog did not see, or > > > > > smell the offered bone, nor witness the withdrawal of the bone, and > > > > > the in fact the dog by dint of it not being human had no concept of me > > > > > nor bone at all? > > > > > > Is the truth from my perspective not also the truth from the dogs? > > > > > > Of course we can't know whether dogs have any concept of truth or > > > > > deception, but the point is the truth is not the truth because of an > > > > > ability to understand the word 'truth', it is true because it actualy > > > > > happend. > > > > > We can know that dog do not use words and cannot think in words. > > > > > > On 12 Jan, 23:26, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On Jan 12, 5:49 pm, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Sorry Chaz I'm calling rubbish on this one. > > > > > > > > If I give my dog a bone and them take it away from him. The truth > > > > > > > from my perspective is that I'm a wind up merchant. Are you > > > > > > > saying > > > > > > > that the dog has no perception of the truth here? Did he not > > > > > > > witness > > > > > > > me offer and then take back the bone? > > > > > > > Dog don't have truth because they don't use the word. Why would you > > > > > > imagine that the dog cashes this stuff out in "terms" of truth? Who > > > > > > knows what the dog thinks but one thing is for sure he does think > > > > > > "Lee > > > > > > is a wind-up merchant". > > > > > > You are talking rubbish. > > > > > > > > On 12 Jan, 15:53, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Jan 11, 10:58 pm, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Let me break down what you are saying. > > > > > > > > > Truth and God only exist in the human mind. > > > > > > > > > Both Truth and God are concepts which are effected by > > > > > > > > > evidence and > > > > > > > > > reason. > > > > > > > > > > So if Truth is only in the human mind, then what are reason > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > evidence discovering? Are you defining truth as a value > > > > > > > > > judgment > > > > > > > > > about something "out there"? Or is truth the something "out > > > > > > > > > there" > > > > > > > > > that evidence and reason are trying to discover? > > > > > > > > > I am defining it as the former. Truth is meaningless out side > > > > > > > > human > > > > > > > > perception. > > > > > > > > Without us there is no truth as there is no human to conceive > > > > > > > > of it. > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 11, 10:50 am, chazwin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 10, 7:00 pm, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Are they so assured that God does not exist but truth > > > > > > > > > > > does? > > > > > > > > > > > Neither truth nor god exist outside of the human mind. Both > > > > > > > > > > are human > > > > > > > > > > concepts which rise or fall against the tides of evidence > > > > > > > > > > and reason. > > > > > > > > > > The main difference is that god has lost the argument but > > > > > > > > > > truth can > > > > > > > > > > still be found despite this simple fact. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jan 10, 11:38 am, frantheman > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 10 Jan., 19:30, Kierkecraig > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote:> Where do Atheists > > > > > > > > > > > > find such passion? > > > > > > > > > > > > > In a love of truth ... and honesty?- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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