Hello Don: Thank you for your reply, and No, you definitely don't sound like a "looney" to me.... just don't make a liar out of me, okay? In the back of my mind, I recall, years back of another case in Texas where a private citizen gun owner used a big revolver (.44 or biger yet... . 50, as I remember) that he had for precision taget shooting at ranges to stop a person at a shopping mall parking lot who was randomly just killing people. There was an instance where I too was glad that there was someone there (private or not) with a gun who could and did stop the killer. In my state there are right to carry laws or "pistol permits" available. An old friend of mine, since passed, had one... he kept a snub-nosed .38... with what-do-you-call-it "hot" (as in extra powder) shells. I don't want just anyone packing a gun, either. My friend belonged to the NRA. I don't know what to do about the .03% that you mention, though. I do think that something should be done about them. Now, taking a large overall look at things, I am wondering... which would you say has the lower "homicide" statistics (from whatever cause gun, knife, etc) a place like Texas that has relatively loose gun ownership laws and a very strict (death penalty) criminal justice system.... or a place like England-Great Britain that has the opposite... very strict gun ownership laws and a comparatively lenient (no death penalty) criminal justice system. I think we both know the answer to that question, don't we? Not that it (pragmatism) accounts for anything on principle. There are still other considerations to bear in mind.... I just want to give credit where credit is due, and the gun controlers do seem to have this point, I think... just keeping it real, as they say. nominal9
On Feb 1, 2:34 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > I don't take anything personally unless I'm more or less told it's > personal. I've been accused of being chronically laid back(except > where crooked politicians are concerned). Yes, Texas is a > right-to-own state. We like our guns here. In the interests of > clarification, would you consider the gun rights group the NRA a > "right-wing fringe element?" I'm not a member, but I sympathize with > their cause and I know more then a few liberal Democrats that ARE > members. I see them and chat with them at the shooting range > regularly. > > I offer no excuses for the WACO incident or the Polygamists other then > to say that sometimes people with weak minds and limited resources are > influenced by smooth talkers offering salvation and 3 squares with a > roof over your head. I try not to judge people when I truly don't > understand their motivations or circumstances. The Church of Jesus > Christ of the Latter Day Saints might take exception to you calling > the polygamists Mormons; I have no horse in this race or dog in this > fight so I really don't have an opinion. Folks are weird. Including > me. > > Yes we have several people on Death Row. Killers all. Some of their > victims might still be alive had they had a gun in the house and not > been afraid to use it. > > You have Joe Horn pegged. My opinion on what he actually should have > done is thus. He should have recorded them climbing out the window > and running off with his neighbors' stuff instead of shooting them. > I'm not bloodthirsty and frankly it wouldn't be worth all the trouble > he caused for himself by killing them. By the same token, if someone > was stealing my car I'd just let them have it and call my insurance > company and the cops to report it. It's just not worth the legal > hassle of protecting property with lethal force. Not to mention the > mental anguish involved in ending life. Somebody loves that guy > probably. His mother if no one else. If people break into my home, > however, they can expect to be killed. The concealed handgun classes > I have attended don't train you to shoot arms or legs they train you > to stop the intruder. Basically this means emptying your gun into > their torso until they fall down. And stay down. My holster has > pockets for extra clips. > > It sounds raw, but I take personal protection seriously. Their are > too many people out there that have no compunction with hurting > others. In fact, some enjoy it. I take comfort in the fact that I > have protection for myself and my family. It really is a comfort. > > As for the loonies(I hope I've not been put in this category) I agree > I don't want just anyone packing a weapon. However, I don't want to > lose my right just to protect ourselves from that .03% that either > can't handle the responsibility of gun ownership or are just plain > mentally unstable. I guess it comes down to individual rights. > Constitutional rights in this case. > > dj > > > > On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 10:46 AM, nominal9 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Huh....Fellas.... > > For the sake, and in the interests, of full disclosure to our > > "overseas" Mind's Eye members.... Craig and Don.... you have to admit > > that Idaho and Texas are "among" if not "the" most Gun-rights States > > in the (U.S.) Union...... and let's not forget that there are quite a > > few.... shall we say... right-wing fringe elements in both states? Not > > to mention the religious fringe ones? Now, I'm not making this > > personal. But Texas... WACO.... The MormonPolygamists... all the > > Death penalty cases.... Was Joe Horn the guy who shot those next-door > > burglars even after the local police asked him not to... ect? And as > > for Idaho.... no offense but isn't that the State residence of choice > > for KKK'ers and Neo-Nazis? All I'm saying Craig and Don.... what about > > the loonies, as Archytas calls them? > > nominal9 > > > On Feb 1, 10:00 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I like the laws we have here in Texas. I carry a concealed handgun > >> license that is good in several other states as well. If someone > >> breaks into your home, you have the right to defend yourself. If you > >> are out and about and someone is being robbed or otherwise molested, > >> you have the right to use your weapon to stop it. > >> While training for the course you get fingerprinted and your gun > >> registered so if you do decide to go nuts it's easier to catch you. I > >> can't imagine what it would be like to have a law against having a gun > >> in the house or having the police come by to take it away. This sort > >> of thing actually happened in Louisiana after Katrina. Leaving > >> otherwise law abiding citizens at the mercy of the rabble that > >> terrorized New Orleans after that disaster. > > >> Illegal weapons are easy to get. Outlawing guns only insures that > >> only outlaws will have them. > > >> Long live Joe Horn. > > >> dj > > >> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> > >> wrote: > > >> > Neil, > >> > There is a difference between vigilante justice and self defense. And > >> > "assault rifle" is a misnomer concocted by the anti gun activists. I > >> > really would like to know what makes an "assault rifle" an "assault > >> > rifle". I know there was gun during world war two that the Germans > >> > used that they would push around on wheels and it was belt fed, and it > >> > did such crazy damage that they called it an assault rifle as a > >> > nickname, but a semi-automatic rifle should be called a semi-automatic > >> > rifle. Also, the notion that hillbillies are the only ones who > >> > believe in the right to bear arms is another anti-gun activist > >> > portrayal. In fact the NRA and Gun Owners of America both are filled > >> > with respectable people who believe that its their right to own a gun, > >> > and they have all their teeth, they don't wear a straw hat, and they > >> > wear shoes wherever they go. Oh, and only a few of them have the name > >> > of Billy Bob. > > >> > I know your just joking around, but your entire post is filled with > >> > the misleading stereotypes that are always attributed to gun owners. > >> > I was watching television the other day and watching several different > >> > television shows, and I could accurately predict every time guns and > >> > red necks were going to be linked together before they even did it. > >> > It was pretty amazing. > > >> > As for your substantive arguments, I tend to find a little more common > >> > ground. I don't buy the argument that more guns is always the answer > >> > to our problems. On the flip side, just because their is a problem > >> > doesn't entail my giving up my right to defend myself and my family. > >> > Additionally, I could care less what you Brits do. I could care less > >> > what you New Yorkers and Californians do. I can see where your living > >> > in close quarters how it might be in your best interests to disarm > >> > yourselves and be the last man that Nietzsche speaks of, but don't > >> > come out here and try to universalize the principle on those of us who > >> > aren't in the same predicament as you. I live in Idaho where the open > >> > spaces go for miles and miles and miles. When I was in high school, > >> > our guns hung in our gun racks in back of our pickup trucks. No one > >> > said a word, nor gave it a second thought. Never in the history of my > >> > town was anyone shot (except one idiot who decided to play Russian > >> > roulette, but I won't go there). We were raised around guns, and we > >> > are trained to use them. When we hear on the television or on the > >> > news about shootings in California or New York or Illinois (where they > >> > have the strictest gun laws by the way), we can't even fathom what is > >> > going on there. > > >> > Gun control may be the answer to your problems. ( I highly doubt it, > >> > but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt ) But we don't have those > >> > problems, and we don't want your solutions. > > >> > On Jan 31, 3:16 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> I doubt the animals "borrow" from you either Craig (typo) - you do > >> >> create the illusion of being a "sparrow blaster" from time to time. I > >> >> used to hunt - but one day I had a bead of a hare in full flight and > >> >> gave it up. Loonies and gutter-scum crooks are much more dangerous > >> >> with guns, so I'm generally against rights to bear arms, despite > >> >> actually rather liking the things themsleves. The arguments I have > >> >> seen are paper-thin and rarely extend beyond posturing. It's pretty > >> >> clear, looking round the world, that where there are no guns it's > >> >> likely a few thugs with them will move in. This rather suggests we > >> >> need them to keep the peace, but it doesn't justify any general > >> >> right. I'd like to see is more generally skilled in defence methods > >> >> through National Service - this extends well beyond guns and engines > >> >> of death - in order to ensure democratisation in our armed services. > >> >> This seems a bit more sensible than relying on a bunch of hillbillies > >> >> with assault rifle fetishes. I don't think it of any use to allow me > >> >> and others to hold guns in case we have to kill gang members and so on > >> >> - but do think we should clamp down on such bastards and kick them off > >> >> our streets. I'm not necessarily averse to armed, official vigilantes > >> >> to do this. Some believe this would be a slippery slope, but I > >> >> believe the slope has already been slidden down. We should throw > >> >> these louts into work and if they don't stay of their own accord, > >> >> chain them to it. > > >> >> On 31 Jan, 20:11, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> > Neil, > >> >> > I'm not a hunter. > > >> >> > On Jan 30, 11:24 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> >> > > I note that animals that borrow and hibernate are less likely to go > >> >> > > extinct - no doubt because Craig can't get > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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