And one other thing, the post you were responding to was a post in which I was making the gun control argument. So how I was projecting poor reasoning, I don't know. I was implying the argument had some meat to it.
On Feb 1, 7:06 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > It's funny that you think I want to impose gun laws on you Craig. We > are lucky here that there are few guns about - though there are now > far more in police hands. It seems to me you are more like some > dreadful African state in the US. I wouldn't want to give my gun up. > Your arguments fly in the face of the facts otherwise and you quickly > project some pretty poor reasoning onto others in this area and a > little caricature is quickly too much for you. I feel much the same > way about the way we have to be restricted in many areas because of > the actions of loonies and scumbags - and sometimes react as you do on > this stuff. The gun situation in the US may be rather like the > revolutions in the Soviet Block - you may have to have a flower stuck > down the barrel and learn to laugh. It's interesting you would want > to preach at someone like me who has carried arms professionally and > so readily think anyone pointing to just how silly the situation is > will be sending UN "peacekeepers" round in the morning to take anyway > your HK or whatever. They took our guns away in NI and got a number > of us killed (our crap government rather than the UN - some only > survived because they had shotgun licences for private use). In terms > of moral reasoning here one ought to consider what end state is most > desirable, and I can't think the current situation in the US (or the > Mexican drug wars etc) is that. It is equally hopeless to keep > stating that we can do any with guns. What might be a new way > forward? > > On 1 Feb, 21:14, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: > > > nom, > > Since your giving credit where credit is due, I may chime in and do > > the same. There seems to be a correlation between low crime rates and > > loose gun laws. However, its hard to say whether its correlation or > > causation. It seems that its probably correlation, or at least we > > have the causation backward. Places like London, or New York City, or > > Los Angeles that have high crime rates, and consequently high gun > > crime rates, and thus tend to get fed up a little faster than those of > > us who don't. Thus, they enact strict gun control laws because of the > > high crime rates in the area. The NRA would have you believe that the > > states with the lower crime rates have lower crime rates due to the > > loose gun control laws. They do have some statistics to back this > > up. But there are obviously two sides to every argument. > > > On Feb 1, 1:24 pm, nominal9 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hello Don: > > > Thank you for your reply, and No, you definitely don't sound like a > > > "looney" to me.... just don't make a liar out of me, okay? In the back > > > of my mind, I recall, years back of another case in Texas where a > > > private citizen gun owner used a big revolver (.44 or biger yet... . > > > 50, as I remember) that he had for precision taget shooting at ranges > > > to stop a person at a shopping mall parking lot who was randomly just > > > killing people. There was an instance where I too was glad that there > > > was someone there (private or not) with a gun who could and did stop > > > the killer. In my state there are right to carry laws or "pistol > > > permits" available. An old friend of mine, since passed, had one... he > > > kept a snub-nosed .38... with what-do-you-call-it "hot" (as in extra > > > powder) shells. I don't want just anyone packing a gun, either. My > > > friend belonged to the NRA. I don't know what to do about the .03% > > > that you mention, though. I do think that something should be done > > > about them. Now, taking a large overall look at things, I am > > > wondering... which would you say has the lower "homicide" statistics > > > (from whatever cause gun, knife, etc) a place like Texas that has > > > relatively loose gun ownership laws and a very strict (death penalty) > > > criminal justice system.... or a place like England-Great Britain that > > > has the opposite... very strict gun ownership laws and a comparatively > > > lenient (no death penalty) criminal justice system. > > > I think we both know the answer to that question, don't we? Not that > > > it (pragmatism) accounts for anything on principle. There are still > > > other considerations to bear in mind.... I just want to give credit > > > where credit is due, and the gun controlers do seem to have this > > > point, I think... just keeping it real, as they say. > > > nominal9 > > > > On Feb 1, 2:34 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I don't take anything personally unless I'm more or less told it's > > > > personal. I've been accused of being chronically laid back(except > > > > where crooked politicians are concerned). Yes, Texas is a > > > > right-to-own state. We like our guns here. In the interests of > > > > clarification, would you consider the gun rights group the NRA a > > > > "right-wing fringe element?" I'm not a member, but I sympathize with > > > > their cause and I know more then a few liberal Democrats that ARE > > > > members. I see them and chat with them at the shooting range > > > > regularly. > > > > > I offer no excuses for the WACO incident or the Polygamists other then > > > > to say that sometimes people with weak minds and limited resources are > > > > influenced by smooth talkers offering salvation and 3 squares with a > > > > roof over your head. I try not to judge people when I truly don't > > > > understand their motivations or circumstances. The Church of Jesus > > > > Christ of the Latter Day Saints might take exception to you calling > > > > the polygamists Mormons; I have no horse in this race or dog in this > > > > fight so I really don't have an opinion. Folks are weird. Including > > > > me. > > > > > Yes we have several people on Death Row. Killers all. Some of their > > > > victims might still be alive had they had a gun in the house and not > > > > been afraid to use it. > > > > > You have Joe Horn pegged. My opinion on what he actually should have > > > > done is thus. He should have recorded them climbing out the window > > > > and running off with his neighbors' stuff instead of shooting them. > > > > I'm not bloodthirsty and frankly it wouldn't be worth all the trouble > > > > he caused for himself by killing them. By the same token, if someone > > > > was stealing my car I'd just let them have it and call my insurance > > > > company and the cops to report it. It's just not worth the legal > > > > hassle of protecting property with lethal force. Not to mention the > > > > mental anguish involved in ending life. Somebody loves that guy > > > > probably. His mother if no one else. If people break into my home, > > > > however, they can expect to be killed. The concealed handgun classes > > > > I have attended don't train you to shoot arms or legs they train you > > > > to stop the intruder. Basically this means emptying your gun into > > > > their torso until they fall down. And stay down. My holster has > > > > pockets for extra clips. > > > > > It sounds raw, but I take personal protection seriously. Their are > > > > too many people out there that have no compunction with hurting > > > > others. In fact, some enjoy it. I take comfort in the fact that I > > > > have protection for myself and my family. It really is a comfort. > > > > > As for the loonies(I hope I've not been put in this category) I agree > > > > I don't want just anyone packing a weapon. However, I don't want to > > > > lose my right just to protect ourselves from that .03% that either > > > > can't handle the responsibility of gun ownership or are just plain > > > > mentally unstable. I guess it comes down to individual rights. > > > > Constitutional rights in this case. > > > > > dj > > > > > On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 10:46 AM, nominal9 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Huh....Fellas.... > > > > > For the sake, and in the interests, of full disclosure to our > > > > > "overseas" Mind's Eye members.... Craig and Don.... you have to admit > > > > > that Idaho and Texas are "among" if not "the" most Gun-rights States > > > > > in the (U.S.) Union...... and let's not forget that there are quite a > > > > > few.... shall we say... right-wing fringe elements in both states? Not > > > > > to mention the religious fringe ones? Now, I'm not making this > > > > > personal. But Texas... WACO.... The MormonPolygamists... all the > > > > > Death penalty cases.... Was Joe Horn the guy who shot those next-door > > > > > burglars even after the local police asked him not to... ect? And as > > > > > for Idaho.... no offense but isn't that the State residence of choice > > > > > for KKK'ers and Neo-Nazis? All I'm saying Craig and Don.... what about > > > > > the loonies, as Archytas calls them? > > > > > nominal9 > > > > > > On Feb 1, 10:00 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> I like the laws we have here in Texas. I carry a concealed handgun > > > > >> license that is good in several other states as well. If someone > > > > >> breaks into your home, you have the right to defend yourself. If you > > > > >> are out and about and someone is being robbed or otherwise molested, > > > > >> you have the right to use your weapon to stop it. > > > > >> While training for the course you get fingerprinted and your gun > > > > >> registered so if you do decide to go nuts it's easier to catch you. > > > > >> I > > > > >> can't imagine what it would be like to have a law against having a > > > > >> gun > > > > >> in the house or having the police come by to take it away. This sort > > > > >> of thing actually happened in Louisiana after Katrina. Leaving > > > > >> otherwise law abiding citizens at the mercy of the rabble that > > > > >> terrorized New Orleans after that disaster. > > > > > >> Illegal weapons are easy to get. Outlawing guns only insures that > > > > >> only outlaws will have them. > > > > > >> Long live Joe Horn. > > > > > >> dj > > > > > >> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Kierkecraig > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
