I don't take anything personally unless I'm more or less told it's personal. I've been accused of being chronically laid back(except where crooked politicians are concerned). Yes, Texas is a right-to-own state. We like our guns here. In the interests of clarification, would you consider the gun rights group the NRA a "right-wing fringe element?" I'm not a member, but I sympathize with their cause and I know more then a few liberal Democrats that ARE members. I see them and chat with them at the shooting range regularly.
I offer no excuses for the WACO incident or the Polygamists other then to say that sometimes people with weak minds and limited resources are influenced by smooth talkers offering salvation and 3 squares with a roof over your head. I try not to judge people when I truly don't understand their motivations or circumstances. The Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints might take exception to you calling the polygamists Mormons; I have no horse in this race or dog in this fight so I really don't have an opinion. Folks are weird. Including me. Yes we have several people on Death Row. Killers all. Some of their victims might still be alive had they had a gun in the house and not been afraid to use it. You have Joe Horn pegged. My opinion on what he actually should have done is thus. He should have recorded them climbing out the window and running off with his neighbors' stuff instead of shooting them. I'm not bloodthirsty and frankly it wouldn't be worth all the trouble he caused for himself by killing them. By the same token, if someone was stealing my car I'd just let them have it and call my insurance company and the cops to report it. It's just not worth the legal hassle of protecting property with lethal force. Not to mention the mental anguish involved in ending life. Somebody loves that guy probably. His mother if no one else. If people break into my home, however, they can expect to be killed. The concealed handgun classes I have attended don't train you to shoot arms or legs they train you to stop the intruder. Basically this means emptying your gun into their torso until they fall down. And stay down. My holster has pockets for extra clips. It sounds raw, but I take personal protection seriously. Their are too many people out there that have no compunction with hurting others. In fact, some enjoy it. I take comfort in the fact that I have protection for myself and my family. It really is a comfort. As for the loonies(I hope I've not been put in this category) I agree I don't want just anyone packing a weapon. However, I don't want to lose my right just to protect ourselves from that .03% that either can't handle the responsibility of gun ownership or are just plain mentally unstable. I guess it comes down to individual rights. Constitutional rights in this case. dj On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 10:46 AM, nominal9 <[email protected]> wrote: > > Huh....Fellas.... > For the sake, and in the interests, of full disclosure to our > "overseas" Mind's Eye members.... Craig and Don.... you have to admit > that Idaho and Texas are "among" if not "the" most Gun-rights States > in the (U.S.) Union...... and let's not forget that there are quite a > few.... shall we say... right-wing fringe elements in both states? Not > to mention the religious fringe ones? Now, I'm not making this > personal. But Texas... WACO.... The MormonPolygamists... all the > Death penalty cases.... Was Joe Horn the guy who shot those next-door > burglars even after the local police asked him not to... ect? And as > for Idaho.... no offense but isn't that the State residence of choice > for KKK'ers and Neo-Nazis? All I'm saying Craig and Don.... what about > the loonies, as Archytas calls them? > nominal9 > > On Feb 1, 10:00 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: >> I like the laws we have here in Texas. I carry a concealed handgun >> license that is good in several other states as well. If someone >> breaks into your home, you have the right to defend yourself. If you >> are out and about and someone is being robbed or otherwise molested, >> you have the right to use your weapon to stop it. >> While training for the course you get fingerprinted and your gun >> registered so if you do decide to go nuts it's easier to catch you. I >> can't imagine what it would be like to have a law against having a gun >> in the house or having the police come by to take it away. This sort >> of thing actually happened in Louisiana after Katrina. Leaving >> otherwise law abiding citizens at the mercy of the rabble that >> terrorized New Orleans after that disaster. >> >> Illegal weapons are easy to get. Outlawing guns only insures that >> only outlaws will have them. >> >> Long live Joe Horn. >> >> dj >> >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > Neil, >> > There is a difference between vigilante justice and self defense. And >> > "assault rifle" is a misnomer concocted by the anti gun activists. I >> > really would like to know what makes an "assault rifle" an "assault >> > rifle". I know there was gun during world war two that the Germans >> > used that they would push around on wheels and it was belt fed, and it >> > did such crazy damage that they called it an assault rifle as a >> > nickname, but a semi-automatic rifle should be called a semi-automatic >> > rifle. Also, the notion that hillbillies are the only ones who >> > believe in the right to bear arms is another anti-gun activist >> > portrayal. In fact the NRA and Gun Owners of America both are filled >> > with respectable people who believe that its their right to own a gun, >> > and they have all their teeth, they don't wear a straw hat, and they >> > wear shoes wherever they go. Oh, and only a few of them have the name >> > of Billy Bob. >> >> > I know your just joking around, but your entire post is filled with >> > the misleading stereotypes that are always attributed to gun owners. >> > I was watching television the other day and watching several different >> > television shows, and I could accurately predict every time guns and >> > red necks were going to be linked together before they even did it. >> > It was pretty amazing. >> >> > As for your substantive arguments, I tend to find a little more common >> > ground. I don't buy the argument that more guns is always the answer >> > to our problems. On the flip side, just because their is a problem >> > doesn't entail my giving up my right to defend myself and my family. >> > Additionally, I could care less what you Brits do. I could care less >> > what you New Yorkers and Californians do. I can see where your living >> > in close quarters how it might be in your best interests to disarm >> > yourselves and be the last man that Nietzsche speaks of, but don't >> > come out here and try to universalize the principle on those of us who >> > aren't in the same predicament as you. I live in Idaho where the open >> > spaces go for miles and miles and miles. When I was in high school, >> > our guns hung in our gun racks in back of our pickup trucks. No one >> > said a word, nor gave it a second thought. Never in the history of my >> > town was anyone shot (except one idiot who decided to play Russian >> > roulette, but I won't go there). We were raised around guns, and we >> > are trained to use them. When we hear on the television or on the >> > news about shootings in California or New York or Illinois (where they >> > have the strictest gun laws by the way), we can't even fathom what is >> > going on there. >> >> > Gun control may be the answer to your problems. ( I highly doubt it, >> > but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt ) But we don't have those >> > problems, and we don't want your solutions. >> >> > On Jan 31, 3:16 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I doubt the animals "borrow" from you either Craig (typo) - you do >> >> create the illusion of being a "sparrow blaster" from time to time. I >> >> used to hunt - but one day I had a bead of a hare in full flight and >> >> gave it up. Loonies and gutter-scum crooks are much more dangerous >> >> with guns, so I'm generally against rights to bear arms, despite >> >> actually rather liking the things themsleves. The arguments I have >> >> seen are paper-thin and rarely extend beyond posturing. It's pretty >> >> clear, looking round the world, that where there are no guns it's >> >> likely a few thugs with them will move in. This rather suggests we >> >> need them to keep the peace, but it doesn't justify any general >> >> right. I'd like to see is more generally skilled in defence methods >> >> through National Service - this extends well beyond guns and engines >> >> of death - in order to ensure democratisation in our armed services. >> >> This seems a bit more sensible than relying on a bunch of hillbillies >> >> with assault rifle fetishes. I don't think it of any use to allow me >> >> and others to hold guns in case we have to kill gang members and so on >> >> - but do think we should clamp down on such bastards and kick them off >> >> our streets. I'm not necessarily averse to armed, official vigilantes >> >> to do this. Some believe this would be a slippery slope, but I >> >> believe the slope has already been slidden down. We should throw >> >> these louts into work and if they don't stay of their own accord, >> >> chain them to it. >> >> >> On 31 Jan, 20:11, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > Neil, >> >> > I'm not a hunter. >> >> >> > On Jan 30, 11:24 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > > I note that animals that borrow and hibernate are less likely to go >> >> > > extinct - no doubt because Craig can't get a bead on them 24/7! Our >> >> > > local Plod has clamped down on guns in Manchester, so now they are >> >> > > killing more frequently with knives. >> >> >> > > On 31 Jan, 03:41, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > > > Its one type of forum grenade that I'm always willing to throw. ;) >> >> >> > > > On Jan 30, 7:44 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> >> >> > > > wrote: >> >> >> > > > > Agreed. The problem that pro-gun and anti-gun folks agree on is >> >> > > > > guns in the >> >> > > > > wrong hands. It's only the solution in which they differ. >> >> > > > > This is also a forum hand grenade, and I'm pleasantly surprised >> >> > > > > at the >> >> > > > > discourse. >> >> >> > > > > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 9:37 PM, archytas >> >> > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > > > > > We have a beer called Punt Gunner - a distasteful brew. The >> >> > > > > > trick is >> >> > > > > > getting guns out of the hand of unworthies. Our local plod has >> >> > > > > > been >> >> > > > > > very successful over the past year, simply by doing something >> >> > > > > > about >> >> > > > > > it. Even punt guns would fail to overthrow governments, but >> >> > > > > > would >> >> > > > > > have some effect in keeping my car clean as we are overflown by >> >> > > > > > geese. This leaves me in favour of rearmament for the same >> >> > > > > > valid >> >> > > > > > reasons Craig supports. >> >> >> > > > > > On 30 Jan, 18:21, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > > > That sucker would shoot a pound of shot at a time?! Holy >> >> > > > > > > crap! That >> >> > > > > > > must have been a lot of fun. I can see how that would have a >> >> > > > > > > huge >> >> > > > > > > effect on the population of water fowl in no time though. >> >> >> > > > > > > I think when you start talking about limitations on firearms >> >> > > > > > > in the >> >> > > > > > > United States you run into conundrums. The rationale behind >> >> > > > > > > the >> >> > > > > > > second amendment is that the populous be armed with military >> >> > > > > > > type >> >> > > > > > > weapons. Reasons being, if the populous is armed with >> >> > > > > > > military type >> >> > > > > > > weapons, then they can be at least semi-effective in repelling >> >> > > > > > > invasions, forming militias, and not to mention, overthrowing >> >> > > > > > > corrupt >> >> > > > > > > governments. So if you start talking about limiting the >> >> > > > > > > weapons and >> >> > > > > > > their abilities, you begin to rationalize away the reasons >> >> > > > > > > behind the >> >> > > > > > > constitutional right. >> >> >> > > > > > > If anything, under the rationale of the second amendment, >> >> > > > > > > limits >> >> > > > > > > placed on handguns would make the most sense. Handguns are >> >> > > > > > > worthless >> >> > > > > > > in forming a militia, repelling invasions, or overthrowing >> >> > > > > > > corrupt >> >> > > > > > > governments. Pistols are not really military weapons, even >> >> > > > > > > though >> >> > > > > > > officers carry them. >> >> >> > > > > > > So the so called "assault weapons" bans, I think, are per se >> >> > > > > > > unconstitutional. The weapons included in those bans include >> >> > > > > > > all the >> >> > > > > > > weapons that would be used in the military. I'm okay though >> >> > > > > > > with the >> >> > > > > > > restriction on fully automatic weapons. Not because I think >> >> > > > > > > fully >> >> > > > > > > automatic weapons are significantly more dangerous than >> >> > > > > > > semi-automatic >> >> > > > > > > weapons, but on the contrary I think semi-automatic weapons >> >> > > > > > > (like my >> >> > > > > > > AR-15) are nearly just as effective as their automatic >> >> > > > > > > relatives (the >> >> > > > > > > M-16), and so it doesn't really bother me that they ban the >> >> > > > > > > automatic >> >> > > > > > > versions. >> >> >> > > > > > > nominal9 wrote: >> >> > > > > > > > I'm not much of a "Gun Guy" myself, but I have good friends >> >> > > > > > > > who are >> >> > > > > > > > hunters. Which is to say, that I have "moderated" my views >> >> > > > > > > > even more >> >> > > > > > > > than my own previous somewhat "liberal" , as in let 'em >> >> > > > > > > > have the guns >> >> > > > > > > > if they want 'em, stance. But still..... what do you more >> >> > > > > > > > avid >> >> > > > > > > > supporters of gun rights think.... shouild there be any >> >> > > > > > > > limitations at >> >> > > > > > > > all, in your opinions?.... Fully automatic... how about >> >> > > > > > > > "calibers" or >> >> > > > > > > > bore size..... I remember reading about "Britsh Punt Guns" >> >> > > > > > > > for >> >> > > > > > > > hunting..... I always wanted to have been around when one >> >> > > > > > > > of those >> >> > > > > > > > little pea shooters went off.... >> >> > > > > > > >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punt_gun >> >> ... >> >> read more ยป- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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