Fran, I'd concur your statement, (and the divergence from the topic), although it seems to be a bit of a muddle. He does espouse a variety of leftist ideals, and his closest allies were the Fascists. What would you characterize the Reich as, politically? It certainly isn't a free trade, strong property rights, small government, anti-authoritarian Right Wing government, despite the presence of capitalist influence.
On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 2:00 PM, frantheman <[email protected]>wrote: > > Craig, I'm not going to get involved in this discussion on guns, as > we've discussed this before (a number of times) and our positions are > - and will most probably remain - diametrically opposed. You feel you > need the right to possess weapons to protect your security, I'm > convinced that general possession of firearms threatens my security > and do not feel insecure in my society (Germany) in which general > possession of guns is not the norm. > > Just one point of fact: National Socialists (Nazionalsozialisten - > Nazis) are not, and have never been "left-wing". A rudimentary study > of German history between 1918 and 1945 demonstrates this, as do the > crazy ideologies and activities of Neo-Nazis (including, > unfortunately, modern Germany, especially in the former GDR since > 1989) up to today. Hitler's use of the word, "socialist", was no more > than a cynical example of Orwellian Newspeak. All the big capitalist > concerns in Germany got on with him just fine from 1932 until 1945 (at > least until the allied bombs started falling on their factories), > including the marvellous Nazi offers of slave-labour to help them > maximize their profits. > > Francis > > On 1 Feb., 18:59, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: > > First of all your characterization of "right wing" elements. Neo- > > nazis are not right wing. In fact, the Nazi party is about as far > > left as you can get. Nazi stands for the National Socialist German > > Workers party, and often for short they just call it National > > Socialism. > > > > And yes, we did have some Neo-nazis here, but we did not welcome these > > left wing quacks with open arms, and in fact there is little left of > > what used to be. In fact I lived in Northern Idaho for 3 years, and > > never saw a single skin head, or KKK'er. In fact, what the news likes > > to make out as Neo-nazis and KKK'ers in Idaho, were a bunch of old men > > that drove around in an old oldsmobile around Sandpoint Idaho. Neo- > > nazis and KKKer's for all practical purposes don't exist here (and > > very few anywhere else). The media just likes to make a big hype > > about them because it makes headlines. > > > > And WACO, and the Fundamentalist Mormon Polygamists, those are > > tragedies. Those are groups of people who have been run over by our > > overextending United States Government. Mormon Polygamists never > > threatened anyone with guns, so I don't really know how its relevant. > > > > Thing is, I do live in Idaho, and I really know how it is. If you > > want to know, just ask me and I'll tell you. Same goes for Don. He > > really does live in Texas, and he can probably give you an accurate > > portrayal of texas, one devoid of the hype given to it by the media. > > > > On Feb 1, 9:46 am, nominal9 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Huh....Fellas.... > > > For the sake, and in the interests, of full disclosure to our > > > "overseas" Mind's Eye members.... Craig and Don.... you have to admit > > > that Idaho and Texas are "among" if not "the" most Gun-rights States > > > in the (U.S.) Union...... and let's not forget that there are quite a > > > few.... shall we say... right-wing fringe elements in both states? Not > > > to mention the religious fringe ones? Now, I'm not making this > > > personal. But Texas... WACO.... The MormonPolygamists... all the > > > Death penalty cases.... Was Joe Horn the guy who shot those next-door > > > burglars even after the local police asked him not to... ect? And as > > > for Idaho.... no offense but isn't that the State residence of choice > > > for KKK'ers and Neo-Nazis? All I'm saying Craig and Don.... what about > > > the loonies, as Archytas calls them? > > > nominal9 > > > > > On Feb 1, 10:00 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I like the laws we have here in Texas. I carry a concealed handgun > > > > license that is good in several other states as well. If someone > > > > breaks into your home, you have the right to defend yourself. If you > > > > are out and about and someone is being robbed or otherwise molested, > > > > you have the right to use your weapon to stop it. > > > > While training for the course you get fingerprinted and your gun > > > > registered so if you do decide to go nuts it's easier to catch you. > I > > > > can't imagine what it would be like to have a law against having a > gun > > > > in the house or having the police come by to take it away. This sort > > > > of thing actually happened in Louisiana after Katrina. Leaving > > > > otherwise law abiding citizens at the mercy of the rabble that > > > > terrorized New Orleans after that disaster. > > > > > > Illegal weapons are easy to get. Outlawing guns only insures that > > > > only outlaws will have them. > > > > > > Long live Joe Horn. > > > > > > dj > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Kierkecraig < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Neil, > > > > > There is a difference between vigilante justice and self defense. > And > > > > > "assault rifle" is a misnomer concocted by the anti gun activists. > I > > > > > really would like to know what makes an "assault rifle" an "assault > > > > > rifle". I know there was gun during world war two that the Germans > > > > > used that they would push around on wheels and it was belt fed, and > it > > > > > did such crazy damage that they called it an assault rifle as a > > > > > nickname, but a semi-automatic rifle should be called a > semi-automatic > > > > > rifle. Also, the notion that hillbillies are the only ones who > > > > > believe in the right to bear arms is another anti-gun activist > > > > > portrayal. In fact the NRA and Gun Owners of America both are > filled > > > > > with respectable people who believe that its their right to own a > gun, > > > > > and they have all their teeth, they don't wear a straw hat, and > they > > > > > wear shoes wherever they go. Oh, and only a few of them have the > name > > > > > of Billy Bob. > > > > > > > I know your just joking around, but your entire post is filled with > > > > > the misleading stereotypes that are always attributed to gun > owners. > > > > > I was watching television the other day and watching several > different > > > > > television shows, and I could accurately predict every time guns > and > > > > > red necks were going to be linked together before they even did it. > > > > > It was pretty amazing. > > > > > > > As for your substantive arguments, I tend to find a little more > common > > > > > ground. I don't buy the argument that more guns is always the > answer > > > > > to our problems. On the flip side, just because their is a problem > > > > > doesn't entail my giving up my right to defend myself and my > family. > > > > > Additionally, I could care less what you Brits do. I could care > less > > > > > what you New Yorkers and Californians do. I can see where your > living > > > > > in close quarters how it might be in your best interests to disarm > > > > > yourselves and be the last man that Nietzsche speaks of, but don't > > > > > come out here and try to universalize the principle on those of us > who > > > > > aren't in the same predicament as you. I live in Idaho where the > open > > > > > spaces go for miles and miles and miles. When I was in high > school, > > > > > our guns hung in our gun racks in back of our pickup trucks. No > one > > > > > said a word, nor gave it a second thought. Never in the history of > my > > > > > town was anyone shot (except one idiot who decided to play Russian > > > > > roulette, but I won't go there). We were raised around guns, and > we > > > > > are trained to use them. When we hear on the television or on the > > > > > news about shootings in California or New York or Illinois (where > they > > > > > have the strictest gun laws by the way), we can't even fathom what > is > > > > > going on there. > > > > > > > Gun control may be the answer to your problems. ( I highly doubt > it, > > > > > but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt ) But we don't have > those > > > > > problems, and we don't want your solutions. > > > > > > > On Jan 31, 3:16 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > >> I doubt the animals "borrow" from you either Craig (typo) - you do > > > > >> create the illusion of being a "sparrow blaster" from time to > time. I > > > > >> used to hunt - but one day I had a bead of a hare in full flight > and > > > > >> gave it up. Loonies and gutter-scum crooks are much more > dangerous > > > > >> with guns, so I'm generally against rights to bear arms, despite > > > > >> actually rather liking the things themsleves. The arguments I > have > > > > >> seen are paper-thin and rarely extend beyond posturing. It's > pretty > > > > >> clear, looking round the world, that where there are no guns it's > > > > >> likely a few thugs with them will move in. This rather suggests > we > > > > >> need them to keep the peace, but it doesn't justify any general > > > > >> right. I'd like to see is more generally skilled in defence > methods > > > > >> through National Service - this extends well beyond guns and > engines > > > > >> of death - in order to ensure democratisation in our armed > services. > > > > >> This seems a bit more sensible than relying on a bunch of > hillbillies > > > > >> with assault rifle fetishes. I don't think it of any use to allow > me > > > > >> and others to hold guns in case we have to kill gang members and > so on > > > > >> - but do think we should clamp down on such bastards and kick them > off > > > > >> our streets. I'm not necessarily averse to armed, official > vigilantes > > > > >> to do this. Some believe this would be a slippery slope, but I > > > > >> believe the slope has already been slidden down. We should throw > > > > >> these louts into work and if they don't stay of their own accord, > > > > >> chain them to it. > > > > > > >> On 31 Jan, 20:11, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >> > Neil, > > > > >> > I'm not a hunter. > > > > > > >> > On Jan 30, 11:24 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >> > > I note that animals that borrow and hibernate are less likely > to go > > > > >> > > extinct - no doubt because Craig can't get a bead on them > 24/7! Our > > > > >> > > local Plod has clamped down on guns in Manchester, so now they > are > > > > >> > > killing more frequently with knives. > > > > > > >> > > On 31 Jan, 03:41, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > Its one type of forum grenade that I'm always willing to > throw. ;) > > > > > > >> > > > On Jan 30, 7:44 pm, Chris Jenkins < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > Agreed. The problem that pro-gun and anti-gun folks agree > on is guns in the > > > > >> > > > > wrong hands. It's only the solution in which they differ. > > > > >> > > > > This is also a forum hand grenade, and I'm pleasantly > surprised at the > > > > >> > > > > discourse. > > > > > > >> > > > > On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 9:37 PM, archytas < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >> > > > > > We have a beer called Punt Gunner - a distasteful brew. > The trick is > > > > >> > > > > > getting guns out of the hand of unworthies. Our local > plod has been > > > > >> > > > > > very successful over the past year, simply by doing > something about > > > > >> > > > > > it. Even punt guns would fail to overthrow governments, > but would > > > > >> > > > > > have some effect in keeping my car clean as we are > overflown by > > > > >> > > > > > geese. This leaves me in favour of rearmament for the > same valid > > > > >> > > > > > reasons Craig supports. > > > > > > >> > > > > > On 30 Jan, 18:21, Kierkecraig > > > > ... > > > > Erfahren Sie mehr ยป > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
