Fran, Then we are merely talking past each other. Its not an issue of imprecision on my part. When I say socialism, I mean socialism as it has been carried out historically. When you say socialism, you mean the abstract theory of socialism. I don't see much difference between Lenin's Russia and Hitler's Germany when it comes to its Economy. Both asserted absolute control over the market. This may be not be your pure Socialism as it fell from the lips of Marx, but it is Socialism as the world has come to know it.
On Feb 1, 2:38 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > Craig, Craig, why do I have to keep at you about accuracy? "Power ... > in the parties [sic] hands, and thus ... socialistic", can only be > understood to refer to the teachings of Lenin concerning the role of > the Communist Party as the guaranteed vanguard and intellectual and > organisational expression of the proletariat resulting in the specific > current of Maxist thinking known as Marxist-Leninism, then taken over > by Mao and used as the basis for his reorganisation of China. As many > posts in the "Capitalism" thread pointed out, these systems (Soviet > and Chinese) have relatively little to do with classical Marxism, let > alone socialism. > > Francis > > On 1 Feb., 22:16, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Nazi capitalism was illusory. It appeared to be capitalistic, but the > > power remained in the parties hands, and thus in reality was > > socialistic. > > > On Feb 1, 12:00 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Craig, I'm not going to get involved in this discussion on guns, as > > > we've discussed this before (a number of times) and our positions are > > > - and will most probably remain - diametrically opposed. You feel you > > > need the right to possess weapons to protect your security, I'm > > > convinced that general possession of firearms threatens my security > > > and do not feel insecure in my society (Germany) in which general > > > possession of guns is not the norm. > > > > Just one point of fact: National Socialists (Nazionalsozialisten - > > > Nazis) are not, and have never been "left-wing". A rudimentary study > > > of German history between 1918 and 1945 demonstrates this, as do the > > > crazy ideologies and activities of Neo-Nazis (including, > > > unfortunately, modern Germany, especially in the former GDR since > > > 1989) up to today. Hitler's use of the word, "socialist", was no more > > > than a cynical example of Orwellian Newspeak. All the big capitalist > > > concerns in Germany got on with him just fine from 1932 until 1945 (at > > > least until the allied bombs started falling on their factories), > > > including the marvellous Nazi offers of slave-labour to help them > > > maximize their profits. > > > > Francis > > > > On 1 Feb., 18:59, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > First of all your characterization of "right wing" elements. Neo- > > > > nazis are not right wing. In fact, the Nazi party is about as far > > > > left as you can get. Nazi stands for the National Socialist German > > > > Workers party, and often for short they just call it National > > > > Socialism. > > > > > And yes, we did have some Neo-nazis here, but we did not welcome these > > > > left wing quacks with open arms, and in fact there is little left of > > > > what used to be. In fact I lived in Northern Idaho for 3 years, and > > > > never saw a single skin head, or KKK'er. In fact, what the news likes > > > > to make out as Neo-nazis and KKK'ers in Idaho, were a bunch of old men > > > > that drove around in an old oldsmobile around Sandpoint Idaho. Neo- > > > > nazis and KKKer's for all practical purposes don't exist here (and > > > > very few anywhere else). The media just likes to make a big hype > > > > about them because it makes headlines. > > > > > And WACO, and the Fundamentalist Mormon Polygamists, those are > > > > tragedies. Those are groups of people who have been run over by our > > > > overextending United States Government. Mormon Polygamists never > > > > threatened anyone with guns, so I don't really know how its relevant. > > > > > Thing is, I do live in Idaho, and I really know how it is. If you > > > > want to know, just ask me and I'll tell you. Same goes for Don. He > > > > really does live in Texas, and he can probably give you an accurate > > > > portrayal of texas, one devoid of the hype given to it by the media. > > > > > On Feb 1, 9:46 am, nominal9 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Huh....Fellas.... > > > > > For the sake, and in the interests, of full disclosure to our > > > > > "overseas" Mind's Eye members.... Craig and Don.... you have to admit > > > > > that Idaho and Texas are "among" if not "the" most Gun-rights States > > > > > in the (U.S.) Union...... and let's not forget that there are quite a > > > > > few.... shall we say... right-wing fringe elements in both states? Not > > > > > to mention the religious fringe ones? Now, I'm not making this > > > > > personal. But Texas... WACO.... The MormonPolygamists... all the > > > > > Death penalty cases.... Was Joe Horn the guy who shot those next-door > > > > > burglars even after the local police asked him not to... ect? And as > > > > > for Idaho.... no offense but isn't that the State residence of choice > > > > > for KKK'ers and Neo-Nazis? All I'm saying Craig and Don.... what about > > > > > the loonies, as Archytas calls them? > > > > > nominal9 > > > > > > On Feb 1, 10:00 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > I like the laws we have here in Texas. I carry a concealed handgun > > > > > > license that is good in several other states as well. If someone > > > > > > breaks into your home, you have the right to defend yourself. If > > > > > > you > > > > > > are out and about and someone is being robbed or otherwise molested, > > > > > > you have the right to use your weapon to stop it. > > > > > > While training for the course you get fingerprinted and your gun > > > > > > registered so if you do decide to go nuts it's easier to catch you. > > > > > > I > > > > > > can't imagine what it would be like to have a law against having a > > > > > > gun > > > > > > in the house or having the police come by to take it away. This > > > > > > sort > > > > > > of thing actually happened in Louisiana after Katrina. Leaving > > > > > > otherwise law abiding citizens at the mercy of the rabble that > > > > > > terrorized New Orleans after that disaster. > > > > > > > Illegal weapons are easy to get. Outlawing guns only insures that > > > > > > only outlaws will have them. > > > > > > > Long live Joe Horn. > > > > > > > dj > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Kierkecraig > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Neil, > > > > > > > There is a difference between vigilante justice and self defense. > > > > > > > And > > > > > > > "assault rifle" is a misnomer concocted by the anti gun > > > > > > > activists. I > > > > > > > really would like to know what makes an "assault rifle" an > > > > > > > "assault > > > > > > > rifle". I know there was gun during world war two that the > > > > > > > Germans > > > > > > > used that they would push around on wheels and it was belt fed, > > > > > > > and it > > > > > > > did such crazy damage that they called it an assault rifle as a > > > > > > > nickname, but a semi-automatic rifle should be called a > > > > > > > semi-automatic > > > > > > > rifle. Also, the notion that hillbillies are the only ones who > > > > > > > believe in the right to bear arms is another anti-gun activist > > > > > > > portrayal. In fact the NRA and Gun Owners of America both are > > > > > > > filled > > > > > > > with respectable people who believe that its their right to own a > > > > > > > gun, > > > > > > > and they have all their teeth, they don't wear a straw hat, and > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > wear shoes wherever they go. Oh, and only a few of them have the > > > > > > > name > > > > > > > of Billy Bob. > > > > > > > > I know your just joking around, but your entire post is filled > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > the misleading stereotypes that are always attributed to gun > > > > > > > owners. > > > > > > > I was watching television the other day and watching several > > > > > > > different > > > > > > > television shows, and I could accurately predict every time guns > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > red necks were going to be linked together before they even did > > > > > > > it. > > > > > > > It was pretty amazing. > > > > > > > > As for your substantive arguments, I tend to find a little more > > > > > > > common > > > > > > > ground. I don't buy the argument that more guns is always the > > > > > > > answer > > > > > > > to our problems. On the flip side, just because their is a > > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > doesn't entail my giving up my right to defend myself and my > > > > > > > family. > > > > > > > Additionally, I could care less what you Brits do. I could care > > > > > > > less > > > > > > > what you New Yorkers and Californians do. I can see where your > > > > > > > living > > > > > > > in close quarters how it might be in your best interests to disarm > > > > > > > yourselves and be the last man that Nietzsche speaks of, but don't > > > > > > > come out here and try to universalize the principle on those of > > > > > > > us who > > > > > > > aren't in the same predicament as you. I live in Idaho where the > > > > > > > open > > > > > > > spaces go for miles and miles and miles. When I was in high > > > > > > > school, > > > > > > > our guns hung in our gun racks in back of our pickup trucks. No > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > said a word, nor gave it a second thought. Never in the history > > > > > > > of my > > > > > > > town was anyone shot (except one idiot who decided to play Russian > > > > > > > roulette, but I won't go there). We were raised around guns, and > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > are trained to use them. When we hear on the television or on the > > > > > > > news about shootings in California or New York or Illinois (where > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > have the strictest gun laws by the way), we can't even fathom > > > > > > > what is > > > > > > > going on there. > > > > > > > > Gun control may be the answer to your problems. ( I highly doubt > > > > > > > it, > > > > > > > but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt ) But we don't have > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > problems, and we don't want your solutions. > > > > > > > > On Jan 31, 3:16 pm, archytas <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >> I doubt the animals "borrow" from you either Craig (typo) - you > > > > > > >> do > > > > > > >> create the illusion of being a "sparrow blaster" from time to > > > > > > >> time. I > > > > > > >> used to hunt - but one day I had a bead of a hare in full flight > > > > > > >> and > > > > > > >> gave it up. Loonies and gutter-scum crooks are much more > > > > > > >> dangerous > > > > > > >> with guns, so I'm generally against rights to bear arms, despite > > > > > > >> actually rather liking the things themsleves. The > > ... > > read more » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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