I rather regard today's society as pansy-laden, though it seems, fortunately I am not understood by Craig. Nietzsche was an idiot pansy in my view, despite insightive moments. I would guess Xtianity more or less created the notion of Rome as it was passed on to us through a series of lies about Barbarians and triumphs by Rome that bear little scrutiny. Religious text is full of this dross. We don't stand up well to facts or reality, pushing them aside in cowardly fashion (this is essentially a Freudian notion today). Machiavelli got much right, though this is not a statement that we should follow his edicts other than as a realist warning. One doesn't have to travel far to discover that most of the world is not Xtian, or to see the horrors pansies like Bush help perpetuate because they need to live in libidinal excess.
On 7 Feb, 00:29, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > Nietzsche was a genius, and very troubled man. He can be mined for all > sorts of ideas and inspirations and much of it is misrepresentational. > Personally, I've never been convinced of his glorification of Homeric > Greece and Sparta, as well as his working of the master-slave theme, > although others have found it inspiring: > > "At one time the Spartans were capable of such a wise measure, but not > our present, mendaciously sentimental, bourgeois patriotic nonsense. > The rule of six thousand Spartans over three hundred and fifty > thousand Helots was only thinkable in consequence of the high racial > value of the Spartans. But this was the result of a systematic race > preservation; thus Sparta must be regarded as the first Völkisch > State. The exposure of sick, weak, deformed children, in short their > destruction, was more decent and in truth a thousand times more humane > than the wretched insanity of our day which preserves the most > pathological subject, and indeed at any price, and yet takes the life > of a hundred thousand healthy children in consequence of birth control > or through abortions, in order subsequently to breed a race of > degenerates burdened with illnesses." > > Three guesses who wrote that, as well as the following: > > "But for the coming of Christianity, who knows how the history of > Europe would have developed? Rome would have conquered all Europe, and > the onrush of the Huns would have been broken on the legions. It was > Christianity that brought about the fall of Rome—not the Germans or > the Huns. What Bolshevism is achieving to-day on the materialist and > technical level, Christianity had achieved on the metaphysical level. > When the Crown sees the throne totter, it needs the support of the > masses." > > Francis > > On 6 Feb., 23:32, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Fran, > > I really don't have much of a philosophy that I'm seriously committed > > to. More or less I just like to get riled up. I WISH I was committed > > to a philosophy, or a view of the world. If pushed, I do get quite > > sick of the world though that you espouse. I long for the type of > > society that Nietzsche speaks of. He spoke so very highly of pre- > > Socratic greece. Society such as Sparta, and pre-Socratic Athens. > > Those were cultures that gloried in strength. They didn't adopt the > > slave mentality that Christianity has heaped upon us all. > > > Its so popular now for us to speak so badly of Christianity, and yet > > what we don't realize is that the world is by and large Christian, > > whether they know it or not. No of course they don't say they believe > > in Jesus. No, they don't read the Bible. No, they probably don't > > even believe in God. But as far as philosophy and world view goes, > > they are died in the wool Christian. Its the Judeo-Christian world > > view that Nietzsche pointed out gives birth to Nihilism. Judeo- > > Christian world view is based on slave mentality. It breeds a culture > > of weaklings. Those who would otherwise be strong and powerful and > > contribute to a strong and powerful culture, they get driven down into > > the dust by slave morality, and everyone is equally pathetic. > > > This is what I am on about today. If you want the honest truth, Bush > > was an evangelical Christian, and was part of the problem, not the > > solution. But relatively speaking, he was stronger and less pathetic > > than most. > > > On Feb 6, 3:16 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Craig, I find your world-view strange and hard to understand. What is > > > "today's pansy laden society?" I am an Irishman, living in Germany. I > > > do not perceive and experience either the country of my birth, or the > > > country in which I live, as "downtrodden and defeated". We are all > > > going through a rough time at the moment (and it will get worse) as a > > > result of greed and stupidity in those responsible for economic > > > affairs in our societies. Such a crisis calls us to examine the > > > principles according to which we organise our communal life and effect > > > changes. As such, it is also an opportunity. > > > > I have the impression - I may be mistaken - that you see a particular > > > model/interpretation of the "American way of life", as being > > > simultaneously better than all others and under acute threat, both > > > from within the US and without. I do not share this way of looking at > > > the world. I live in a western European country, where much, like > > > everywhere else, is imperfect and some things are in a bit of a mess. > > > Nevertheless, I feel free and secure. It is a society where a basic > > > level of assent and consent is present, where, generally, peace, the > > > rule of law and a strong sense of civil rights prevail. It is a > > > culture which, with some exceptions, does have a sense of fundamental > > > decency, where there is a basic solidarity with those who are weaker > > > and a deeply-rooted desire to hand a more or less viable world on to > > > our children and grandchildren. > > > > The Cold War has been over for twenty years now, and I do not feel > > > threatened by the East. I do see a future in which the most populous > > > nations of the world (in particular, the Asian countries of China and > > > India) will have much more influence on a global scale, something > > > which is only just, giving that the two nations I have mentioned alone > > > are home to one third of the world's population. I think there is a > > > good chance that their continuing economic development will be > > > paralleled (causally, it could be argued) by positive developments in > > > civil society (I'm thinking of China particularly here). But maybe one > > > of the lessons we can learn from the Bush era is that these > > > developments will not be furthered by forcing a particular vision of > > > how societies should be ordered through the barrel of a gun, or > > > economic bullying. The developing countries, as well as the tiger > > > economies, have an acute sense of having been historically dominated > > > and exploited by the west - rightly for the most part - and this makes > > > them sensitive about and suspicious of what they perceive as > > > condescending preaching (and incidental defense of the status quo) by > > > the West. > > > > The values formulated in the Enlightenment - liberty, equality, > > > tolerance, representative government, due process and the rule of law, > > > basic solidarity as the foundation of society are embodied (in many > > > respects, imperfectly) in the USA and the Western democracies. They > > > are values worth standing up for. I believe, however, that example is > > > the most potent force and that consistent adherence to these values > > > (and their more perfect realisation) in our own societies, and the > > > positive results resulting from this, are the strongest arguments for > > > their more widespread adoption. > > > > Where these values - and our societies - are attacked, we must, of > > > course, resist. However, the path of resistance pursued by the Bush > > > administration for the past seven years has not been crowned with any > > > great measure of success. > > > > Francis > > > > On 6 Feb., 20:52, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Chris, I didn't say my defense of Bush was easy. It makes it > > > > especially hard when he bent over, grabbed his ankles, and invited the > > > > democrats to do their business. The bailout was Bush trying to save > > > > face after being completely humiliated and destroyed by the MSM. But, > > > > nevertheless, I defend him. In fact I'm surprised that a man like > > > > Bush was even possible in today's pansy laden society. I think the > > > > Bush administration was the last vestige we will see of any attempt at > > > > strength by the American people. From here on out you can plan on us > > > > exhibiting nothing but weakness. I think we will pretty much reflect > > > > the likes of every downtrodden and defeated society in the West. From > > > > here on out will see the East rise. > > > > > On Feb 6, 12:28 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Here's where we differ on that, Craig. > > > > > We have 8 years of some fairly sizable errors in judgment, and crises > > > > > of > > > > > administration. Now, we have a new president who's been in office two > > > > > weeks. > > > > > You know I am more than willing and able to be critical as the need > > > > > arises, > > > > > but on what basis would you continue that administration, as opposed > > > > > to > > > > > trying out a new direction? The first bailout bill was the final act > > > > > of > > > > > Grand Larceny against the American People perpetrated by Bush's > > > > > administration. I don't see how you wouldn't take umbrage with that. > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I have no doubt I'm on my own. I defend him when no one else will. --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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