victor david hanson?
On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 2:45 PM, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 7 Feb., 01:29, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: >> Nietzsche was a genius, and very troubled man. He can be mined for all >> sorts of ideas and inspirations and much of it is misrepresentational. >> Personally, I've never been convinced of his glorification of Homeric >> Greece and Sparta, as well as his working of the master-slave theme, >> although others have found it inspiring: >> >> "At one time the Spartans were capable of such a wise measure, but not >> our present, mendaciously sentimental, bourgeois patriotic nonsense. >> The rule of six thousand Spartans over three hundred and fifty >> thousand Helots was only thinkable in consequence of the high racial >> value of the Spartans. But this was the result of a systematic race >> preservation; thus Sparta must be regarded as the first Völkisch >> State. The exposure of sick, weak, deformed children, in short their >> destruction, was more decent and in truth a thousand times more humane >> than the wretched insanity of our day which preserves the most >> pathological subject, and indeed at any price, and yet takes the life >> of a hundred thousand healthy children in consequence of birth control >> or through abortions, in order subsequently to breed a race of >> degenerates burdened with illnesses." >> >> Three guesses who wrote that, as well as the following: > > I may not have expressed this clearly. The author was NOT Nietzsche. > >> "But for the coming of Christianity, who knows how the history of >> Europe would have developed? Rome would have conquered all Europe, and >> the onrush of the Huns would have been broken on the legions. It was >> Christianity that brought about the fall of Rome—not the Germans or >> the Huns. What Bolshevism is achieving to-day on the materialist and >> technical level, Christianity had achieved on the metaphysical level. >> When the Crown sees the throne totter, it needs the support of the >> masses." >> >> Francis >> >> On 6 Feb., 23:32, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > Fran, >> > I really don't have much of a philosophy that I'm seriously committed >> > to. More or less I just like to get riled up. I WISH I was committed >> > to a philosophy, or a view of the world. If pushed, I do get quite >> > sick of the world though that you espouse. I long for the type of >> > society that Nietzsche speaks of. He spoke so very highly of pre- >> > Socratic greece. Society such as Sparta, and pre-Socratic Athens. >> > Those were cultures that gloried in strength. They didn't adopt the >> > slave mentality that Christianity has heaped upon us all. >> >> > Its so popular now for us to speak so badly of Christianity, and yet >> > what we don't realize is that the world is by and large Christian, >> > whether they know it or not. No of course they don't say they believe >> > in Jesus. No, they don't read the Bible. No, they probably don't >> > even believe in God. But as far as philosophy and world view goes, >> > they are died in the wool Christian. Its the Judeo-Christian world >> > view that Nietzsche pointed out gives birth to Nihilism. Judeo- >> > Christian world view is based on slave mentality. It breeds a culture >> > of weaklings. Those who would otherwise be strong and powerful and >> > contribute to a strong and powerful culture, they get driven down into >> > the dust by slave morality, and everyone is equally pathetic. >> >> > This is what I am on about today. If you want the honest truth, Bush >> > was an evangelical Christian, and was part of the problem, not the >> > solution. But relatively speaking, he was stronger and less pathetic >> > than most. >> >> > On Feb 6, 3:16 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > Craig, I find your world-view strange and hard to understand. What is >> > > "today's pansy laden society?" I am an Irishman, living in Germany. I >> > > do not perceive and experience either the country of my birth, or the >> > > country in which I live, as "downtrodden and defeated". We are all >> > > going through a rough time at the moment (and it will get worse) as a >> > > result of greed and stupidity in those responsible for economic >> > > affairs in our societies. Such a crisis calls us to examine the >> > > principles according to which we organise our communal life and effect >> > > changes. As such, it is also an opportunity. >> >> > > I have the impression - I may be mistaken - that you see a particular >> > > model/interpretation of the "American way of life", as being >> > > simultaneously better than all others and under acute threat, both >> > > from within the US and without. I do not share this way of looking at >> > > the world. I live in a western European country, where much, like >> > > everywhere else, is imperfect and some things are in a bit of a mess. >> > > Nevertheless, I feel free and secure. It is a society where a basic >> > > level of assent and consent is present, where, generally, peace, the >> > > rule of law and a strong sense of civil rights prevail. It is a >> > > culture which, with some exceptions, does have a sense of fundamental >> > > decency, where there is a basic solidarity with those who are weaker >> > > and a deeply-rooted desire to hand a more or less viable world on to >> > > our children and grandchildren. >> >> > > The Cold War has been over for twenty years now, and I do not feel >> > > threatened by the East. I do see a future in which the most populous >> > > nations of the world (in particular, the Asian countries of China and >> > > India) will have much more influence on a global scale, something >> > > which is only just, giving that the two nations I have mentioned alone >> > > are home to one third of the world's population. I think there is a >> > > good chance that their continuing economic development will be >> > > paralleled (causally, it could be argued) by positive developments in >> > > civil society (I'm thinking of China particularly here). But maybe one >> > > of the lessons we can learn from the Bush era is that these >> > > developments will not be furthered by forcing a particular vision of >> > > how societies should be ordered through the barrel of a gun, or >> > > economic bullying. The developing countries, as well as the tiger >> > > economies, have an acute sense of having been historically dominated >> > > and exploited by the west - rightly for the most part - and this makes >> > > them sensitive about and suspicious of what they perceive as >> > > condescending preaching (and incidental defense of the status quo) by >> > > the West. >> >> > > The values formulated in the Enlightenment - liberty, equality, >> > > tolerance, representative government, due process and the rule of law, >> > > basic solidarity as the foundation of society are embodied (in many >> > > respects, imperfectly) in the USA and the Western democracies. They >> > > are values worth standing up for. I believe, however, that example is >> > > the most potent force and that consistent adherence to these values >> > > (and their more perfect realisation) in our own societies, and the >> > > positive results resulting from this, are the strongest arguments for >> > > their more widespread adoption. >> >> > > Where these values - and our societies - are attacked, we must, of >> > > course, resist. However, the path of resistance pursued by the Bush >> > > administration for the past seven years has not been crowned with any >> > > great measure of success. >> >> > > Francis >> >> > > On 6 Feb., 20:52, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > Chris, I didn't say my defense of Bush was easy. It makes it >> > > > especially hard when he bent over, grabbed his ankles, and invited the >> > > > democrats to do their business. The bailout was Bush trying to save >> > > > face after being completely humiliated and destroyed by the MSM. But, >> > > > nevertheless, I defend him. In fact I'm surprised that a man like >> > > > Bush was even possible in today's pansy laden society. I think the >> > > > Bush administration was the last vestige we will see of any attempt at >> > > > strength by the American people. From here on out you can plan on us >> > > > exhibiting nothing but weakness. I think we will pretty much reflect >> > > > the likes of every downtrodden and defeated society in the West. From >> > > > here on out will see the East rise. >> >> > > > On Feb 6, 12:28 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > Here's where we differ on that, Craig. >> > > > > We have 8 years of some fairly sizable errors in judgment, and >> > > > > crises of >> > > > > administration. Now, we have a new president who's been in office >> > > > > two weeks. >> > > > > You know I am more than willing and able to be critical as the need >> > > > > arises, >> > > > > but on what basis would you continue that administration, as opposed >> > > > > to >> > > > > trying out a new direction? The first bailout bill was the final act >> > > > > of >> > > > > Grand Larceny against the American People perpetrated by Bush's >> > > > > administration. I don't see how you wouldn't take umbrage with that. >> >> > > > > On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Kierkecraig >> > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > > > > > I have no doubt I'm on my own. I defend him when no one else will. > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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