Good to know I could get a laugh out of you, Craig. Sometimes it's the best answer to the kind of despairing feeling of senselessness and injustice expressed in the Kierkegaard citation quoted by Orn. Or, as the Monty Pythons put it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ (another take on the Christian "slave" mentality! :-))
Francis On 7 Feb., 22:56, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: > Haha. I actually laughed out loud when I read this comment. Very > clever. > > On Feb 7, 2:51 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Not at all, Craig. After all, you've defined the Nazis as socialists > > here, and we all know you're not a socialist. ;-) > > > On 7 Feb., 22:39, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > So is the implication that I am a Nazi? > > > > On Feb 7, 2:32 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > It's from Hitler’s Zweites Buch. > > > > > On Feb 7, 3:19 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Nope. > > > > > > On 7 Feb., 21:51, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > victor david hanson? > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 2:45 PM, frantheman > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > On 7 Feb., 01:29, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > >> Nietzsche was a genius, and very troubled man. He can be mined > > > > > > >> for all > > > > > > >> sorts of ideas and inspirations and much of it is > > > > > > >> misrepresentational. > > > > > > >> Personally, I've never been convinced of his glorification of > > > > > > >> Homeric > > > > > > >> Greece and Sparta, as well as his working of the master-slave > > > > > > >> theme, > > > > > > >> although others have found it inspiring: > > > > > > > >> "At one time the Spartans were capable of such a wise measure, > > > > > > >> but not > > > > > > >> our present, mendaciously sentimental, bourgeois patriotic > > > > > > >> nonsense. > > > > > > >> The rule of six thousand Spartans over three hundred and fifty > > > > > > >> thousand Helots was only thinkable in consequence of the high > > > > > > >> racial > > > > > > >> value of the Spartans. But this was the result of a systematic > > > > > > >> race > > > > > > >> preservation; thus Sparta must be regarded as the first Völkisch > > > > > > >> State. The exposure of sick, weak, deformed children, in short > > > > > > >> their > > > > > > >> destruction, was more decent and in truth a thousand times more > > > > > > >> humane > > > > > > >> than the wretched insanity of our day which preserves the most > > > > > > >> pathological subject, and indeed at any price, and yet takes the > > > > > > >> life > > > > > > >> of a hundred thousand healthy children in consequence of birth > > > > > > >> control > > > > > > >> or through abortions, in order subsequently to breed a race of > > > > > > >> degenerates burdened with illnesses." > > > > > > > >> Three guesses who wrote that, as well as the following: > > > > > > > > I may not have expressed this clearly. The author was NOT > > > > > > > Nietzsche. > > > > > > > >> "But for the coming of Christianity, who knows how the history of > > > > > > >> Europe would have developed? Rome would have conquered all > > > > > > >> Europe, and > > > > > > >> the onrush of the Huns would have been broken on the legions. It > > > > > > >> was > > > > > > >> Christianity that brought about the fall of Rome—not the Germans > > > > > > >> or > > > > > > >> the Huns. What Bolshevism is achieving to-day on the materialist > > > > > > >> and > > > > > > >> technical level, Christianity had achieved on the metaphysical > > > > > > >> level. > > > > > > >> When the Crown sees the throne totter, it needs the support of > > > > > > >> the > > > > > > >> masses." > > > > > > > >> Francis > > > > > > > >> On 6 Feb., 23:32, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > >> > Fran, > > > > > > >> > I really don't have much of a philosophy that I'm seriously > > > > > > >> > committed > > > > > > >> > to. More or less I just like to get riled up. I WISH I was > > > > > > >> > committed > > > > > > >> > to a philosophy, or a view of the world. If pushed, I do get > > > > > > >> > quite > > > > > > >> > sick of the world though that you espouse. I long for the > > > > > > >> > type of > > > > > > >> > society that Nietzsche speaks of. He spoke so very highly of > > > > > > >> > pre- > > > > > > >> > Socratic greece. Society such as Sparta, and pre-Socratic > > > > > > >> > Athens. > > > > > > >> > Those were cultures that gloried in strength. They didn't > > > > > > >> > adopt the > > > > > > >> > slave mentality that Christianity has heaped upon us all. > > > > > > > >> > Its so popular now for us to speak so badly of Christianity, > > > > > > >> > and yet > > > > > > >> > what we don't realize is that the world is by and large > > > > > > >> > Christian, > > > > > > >> > whether they know it or not. No of course they don't say they > > > > > > >> > believe > > > > > > >> > in Jesus. No, they don't read the Bible. No, they probably > > > > > > >> > don't > > > > > > >> > even believe in God. But as far as philosophy and world view > > > > > > >> > goes, > > > > > > >> > they are died in the wool Christian. Its the Judeo-Christian > > > > > > >> > world > > > > > > >> > view that Nietzsche pointed out gives birth to Nihilism. > > > > > > >> > Judeo- > > > > > > >> > Christian world view is based on slave mentality. It breeds a > > > > > > >> > culture > > > > > > >> > of weaklings. Those who would otherwise be strong and > > > > > > >> > powerful and > > > > > > >> > contribute to a strong and powerful culture, they get driven > > > > > > >> > down into > > > > > > >> > the dust by slave morality, and everyone is equally pathetic. > > > > > > > >> > This is what I am on about today. If you want the honest > > > > > > >> > truth, Bush > > > > > > >> > was an evangelical Christian, and was part of the problem, not > > > > > > >> > the > > > > > > >> > solution. But relatively speaking, he was stronger and less > > > > > > >> > pathetic > > > > > > >> > than most. > > > > > > > >> > On Feb 6, 3:16 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> > > > > > > >> > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > Craig, I find your world-view strange and hard to > > > > > > >> > > understand. What is > > > > > > >> > > "today's pansy laden society?" I am an Irishman, living in > > > > > > >> > > Germany. I > > > > > > >> > > do not perceive and experience either the country of my > > > > > > >> > > birth, or the > > > > > > >> > > country in which I live, as "downtrodden and defeated". We > > > > > > >> > > are all > > > > > > >> > > going through a rough time at the moment (and it will get > > > > > > >> > > worse) as a > > > > > > >> > > result of greed and stupidity in those responsible for > > > > > > >> > > economic > > > > > > >> > > affairs in our societies. Such a crisis calls us to examine > > > > > > >> > > the > > > > > > >> > > principles according to which we organise our communal life > > > > > > >> > > and effect > > > > > > >> > > changes. As such, it is also an opportunity. > > > > > > > >> > > I have the impression - I may be mistaken - that you see a > > > > > > >> > > particular > > > > > > >> > > model/interpretation of the "American way of life", as being > > > > > > >> > > simultaneously better than all others and under acute > > > > > > >> > > threat, both > > > > > > >> > > from within the US and without. I do not share this way of > > > > > > >> > > looking at > > > > > > >> > > the world. I live in a western European country, where much, > > > > > > >> > > like > > > > > > >> > > everywhere else, is imperfect and some things are in a bit > > > > > > >> > > of a mess. > > > > > > >> > > Nevertheless, I feel free and secure. It is a society where > > > > > > >> > > a basic > > > > > > >> > > level of assent and consent is present, where, generally, > > > > > > >> > > peace, the > > > > > > >> > > rule of law and a strong sense of civil rights prevail. It > > > > > > >> > > is a > > > > > > >> > > culture which, with some exceptions, does have a sense of > > > > > > >> > > fundamental > > > > > > >> > > decency, where there is a basic solidarity with those who > > > > > > >> > > are weaker > > > > > > >> > > and a deeply-rooted desire to hand a more or less viable > > > > > > >> > > world on to > > > > > > >> > > our children and grandchildren. > > > > > > > >> > > The Cold War has been over for twenty years now, and I do > > > > > > >> > > not feel > > > > > > >> > > threatened by the East. I do see a future in which the most > > > > > > >> > > populous > > > > > > >> > > nations of the world (in particular, the Asian countries of > > > > > > >> > > China and > > > > > > >> > > India) will have much more influence on a global scale, > > > > > > >> > > something > > > > > > >> > > which is only just, giving that the two nations I have > > > > > > >> > > mentioned alone > > > > > > >> > > are home to one third of the world's population. I think > > > > > > >> > > there is a > > > > > > >> > > good chance that their continuing economic development will > > > > > > >> > > be > > > > > > >> > > paralleled (causally, it could be argued) by positive > > > > > > >> > > developments in > > > > > > >> > > civil society (I'm thinking of China particularly here). But > > > > > > >> > > maybe one > > > > > > >> > > of the lessons we can learn from the Bush era is that these > > > > > > >> > > developments will not be furthered by forcing a particular > > > > > > >> > > vision of > > > > > > >> > > how societies should be ordered through the barrel of a gun, > > > > > > >> > > or > > > > > > >> > > economic bullying. The developing countries, as well as the > > > > > > >> > > tiger > > > > > > >> > > economies, have an acute sense of having been historically > > > > > > >> > > dominated > > > > > > >> > > and exploited by the west - rightly for the most part - and > > > > > > >> > > this makes > > > > > > >> > > them sensitive about and suspicious of what they perceive as > > > > > > >> > > condescending preaching (and incidental defense of the > > > > > > >> > > status quo) by > > > > > > >> > > the West. > > > > > > > >> > > The values formulated in the Enlightenment - liberty, > > > > > > >> > > equality, > > > > > > >> > > tolerance, representative government, due process and the > > > > > > >> > > rule of law, > > > > > > >> > > basic solidarity as the foundation of society are embodied > > > > > > >> > > (in many > > > > > > >> > > respects, imperfectly) in the USA and the Western > > > > > > >> > > democracies. They > > > > > > >> > > are values worth standing up for. I believe, however, that > > > > > > >> > > example is > > > > > > >> > > the most potent force and that consistent adherence to these > > > > > > >> > > values > > > > > > >> > > (and their more perfect realisation) in our own societies, > > > > > > >> > > and the > > > > > > >> > > positive results resulting from this, are the strongest > > > > > > >> > > arguments for > > > > > > >> > > their more widespread adoption. > > > > > > > >> > > Where these values - and our societies - are attacked, we > > > > > > >> > > must, of > > > > > > >> > > course, resist. However, the path of resistance pursued by > > > > > > >> > > the Bush > > > > > > >> > > administration for the past seven years has not been crowned > > > > > > >> > > with any > > > > > > >> > > great measure of success. > > > > > > > >> > > Francis > > > > > > > >> > > On 6 Feb., 20:52, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> > > > > > > >> > > wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > Chris, I didn't say my defense of Bush was easy. It makes > > > > > > >> > > > it > > > > > > >> > > > especially hard when he bent over, grabbed his ankles, and > > > > > > >> > > > invited the > > > > > > >> > > > democrats to do their business. The bailout was Bush > > > > > > >> > > > trying to save > > > > > > >> > > > face after being completely humiliated and destroyed by > > ... > > Erfahren Sie mehr » --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
