"...One sticks one’s finger into the soil to tell by the smell in what land one is: I stick my finger in existence — it smells of nothing. Where am I? Who am I? How came I here? What is this thing called the world? What does this world mean? Who is it that has lured me into the world? Why was I not consulted, why not made acquainted with its manners and customs instead of throwing me into the ranks, as if I had been bought by a kidnapper, a dealer in souls? How did I obtain an interest in this big enterprise they call reality? Why should I have an interest in it? Is it not a voluntary concern? And if I am to be compelled to take part in it, where is the director? I should like to make a remark to him. Is there no director? Whither shall I turn with my complaint? ..." SØren Kierkegaard Repetition (1843), Voice: Young Man
On Feb 6, 4:29 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > Nietzsche was a genius, and very troubled man. He can be mined for all > sorts of ideas and inspirations and much of it is misrepresentational. > Personally, I've never been convinced of his glorification of Homeric > Greece and Sparta, as well as his working of the master-slave theme, > although others have found it inspiring: > > "At one time the Spartans were capable of such a wise measure, but not > our present, mendaciously sentimental, bourgeois patriotic nonsense. > The rule of six thousand Spartans over three hundred and fifty > thousand Helots was only thinkable in consequence of the high racial > value of the Spartans. But this was the result of a systematic race > preservation; thus Sparta must be regarded as the first Völkisch > State. The exposure of sick, weak, deformed children, in short their > destruction, was more decent and in truth a thousand times more humane > than the wretched insanity of our day which preserves the most > pathological subject, and indeed at any price, and yet takes the life > of a hundred thousand healthy children in consequence of birth control > or through abortions, in order subsequently to breed a race of > degenerates burdened with illnesses." > > Three guesses who wrote that, as well as the following: > > "But for the coming of Christianity, who knows how the history of > Europe would have developed? Rome would have conquered all Europe, and > the onrush of the Huns would have been broken on the legions. It was > Christianity that brought about the fall of Rome—not the Germans or > the Huns. What Bolshevism is achieving to-day on the materialist and > technical level, Christianity had achieved on the metaphysical level. > When the Crown sees the throne totter, it needs the support of the > masses." > > Francis > > On 6 Feb., 23:32, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Fran, > > I really don't have much of a philosophy that I'm seriously committed > > to. More or less I just like to get riled up. I WISH I was committed > > to a philosophy, or a view of the world. If pushed, I do get quite > > sick of the world though that you espouse. I long for the type of > > society that Nietzsche speaks of. He spoke so very highly of pre- > > Socratic greece. Society such as Sparta, and pre-Socratic Athens. > > Those were cultures that gloried in strength. They didn't adopt the > > slave mentality that Christianity has heaped upon us all. > > > Its so popular now for us to speak so badly of Christianity, and yet > > what we don't realize is that the world is by and large Christian, > > whether they know it or not. No of course they don't say they believe > > in Jesus. No, they don't read the Bible. No, they probably don't > > even believe in God. But as far as philosophy and world view goes, > > they are died in the wool Christian. Its the Judeo-Christian world > > view that Nietzsche pointed out gives birth to Nihilism. Judeo- > > Christian world view is based on slave mentality. It breeds a culture > > of weaklings. Those who would otherwise be strong and powerful and > > contribute to a strong and powerful culture, they get driven down into > > the dust by slave morality, and everyone is equally pathetic. > > > This is what I am on about today. If you want the honest truth, Bush > > was an evangelical Christian, and was part of the problem, not the > > solution. But relatively speaking, he was stronger and less pathetic > > than most. > > > On Feb 6, 3:16 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Craig, I find your world-view strange and hard to understand. What is > > > "today's pansy laden society?" I am an Irishman, living in Germany. I > > > do not perceive and experience either the country of my birth, or the > > > country in which I live, as "downtrodden and defeated". We are all > > > going through a rough time at the moment (and it will get worse) as a > > > result of greed and stupidity in those responsible for economic > > > affairs in our societies. Such a crisis calls us to examine the > > > principles according to which we organise our communal life and effect > > > changes. As such, it is also an opportunity. > > > > I have the impression - I may be mistaken - that you see a particular > > > model/interpretation of the "American way of life", as being > > > simultaneously better than all others and under acute threat, both > > > from within the US and without. I do not share this way of looking at > > > the world. I live in a western European country, where much, like > > > everywhere else, is imperfect and some things are in a bit of a mess. > > > Nevertheless, I feel free and secure. It is a society where a basic > > > level of assent and consent is present, where, generally, peace, the > > > rule of law and a strong sense of civil rights prevail. It is a > > > culture which, with some exceptions, does have a sense of fundamental > > > decency, where there is a basic solidarity with those who are weaker > > > and a deeply-rooted desire to hand a more or less viable world on to > > > our children and grandchildren. > > > > The Cold War has been over for twenty years now, and I do not feel > > > threatened by the East. I do see a future in which the most populous > > > nations of the world (in particular, the Asian countries of China and > > > India) will have much more influence on a global scale, something > > > which is only just, giving that the two nations I have mentioned alone > > > are home to one third of the world's population. I think there is a > > > good chance that their continuing economic development will be > > > paralleled (causally, it could be argued) by positive developments in > > > civil society (I'm thinking of China particularly here). But maybe one > > > of the lessons we can learn from the Bush era is that these > > > developments will not be furthered by forcing a particular vision of > > > how societies should be ordered through the barrel of a gun, or > > > economic bullying. The developing countries, as well as the tiger > > > economies, have an acute sense of having been historically dominated > > > and exploited by the west - rightly for the most part - and this makes > > > them sensitive about and suspicious of what they perceive as > > > condescending preaching (and incidental defense of the status quo) by > > > the West. > > > > The values formulated in the Enlightenment - liberty, equality, > > > tolerance, representative government, due process and the rule of law, > > > basic solidarity as the foundation of society are embodied (in many > > > respects, imperfectly) in the USA and the Western democracies. They > > > are values worth standing up for. I believe, however, that example is > > > the most potent force and that consistent adherence to these values > > > (and their more perfect realisation) in our own societies, and the > > > positive results resulting from this, are the strongest arguments for > > > their more widespread adoption. > > > > Where these values - and our societies - are attacked, we must, of > > > course, resist. However, the path of resistance pursued by the Bush > > > administration for the past seven years has not been crowned with any > > > great measure of success. > > > > Francis > > > > On 6 Feb., 20:52, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Chris, I didn't say my defense of Bush was easy. It makes it > > > > especially hard when he bent over, grabbed his ankles, and invited the > > > > democrats to do their business. The bailout was Bush trying to save > > > > face after being completely humiliated and destroyed by the MSM. But, > > > > nevertheless, I defend him. In fact I'm surprised that a man like > > > > Bush was even possible in today's pansy laden society. I think the > > > > Bush administration was the last vestige we will see of any attempt at > > > > strength by the American people. From here on out you can plan on us > > > > exhibiting nothing but weakness. I think we will pretty much reflect > > > > the likes of every downtrodden and defeated society in the West. From > > > > here on out will see the East rise. > > > > > On Feb 6, 12:28 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Here's where we differ on that, Craig. > > > > > We have 8 years of some fairly sizable errors in judgment, and crises > > > > > of > > > > > administration. Now, we have a new president who's been in office two > > > > > weeks. > > > > > You know I am more than willing and able to be critical as the need > > > > > arises, > > > > > but on what basis would you continue that administration, as opposed > > > > > to > > > > > trying out a new direction? The first bailout bill was the final act > > > > > of > > > > > Grand Larceny against the American People perpetrated by Bush's > > > > > administration. I don't see how you wouldn't take umbrage with that. > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > I have no doubt I'm on my own. I defend him when no one else > > > > > > will.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. 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