On 7 Feb., 01:29, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Nietzsche was a genius, and very troubled man. He can be mined for all
> sorts of ideas and inspirations and much of it is misrepresentational.
> Personally, I've never been convinced of his glorification of Homeric
> Greece and Sparta, as well as his working of the master-slave theme,
> although others have found it inspiring:
>
> "At one time the Spartans were capable of such a wise measure, but not
> our present, mendaciously sentimental, bourgeois patriotic nonsense.
> The rule of six thousand Spartans over three hundred and fifty
> thousand Helots was only thinkable in consequence of the high racial
> value of the Spartans. But this was the result of a systematic race
> preservation; thus Sparta must be regarded as the first Völkisch
> State. The exposure of sick, weak, deformed children, in short their
> destruction, was more decent and in truth a thousand times more humane
> than the wretched insanity of our day which preserves the most
> pathological subject, and indeed at any price, and yet takes the life
> of a hundred thousand healthy children in consequence of birth control
> or through abortions, in order subsequently to breed a race of
> degenerates burdened with illnesses."
>
> Three guesses who wrote that, as well as the following:
I may not have expressed this clearly. The author was NOT Nietzsche.
> "But for the coming of Christianity, who knows how the history of
> Europe would have developed? Rome would have conquered all Europe, and
> the onrush of the Huns would have been broken on the legions. It was
> Christianity that brought about the fall of Rome—not the Germans or
> the Huns. What Bolshevism is achieving to-day on the materialist and
> technical level, Christianity had achieved on the metaphysical level.
> When the Crown sees the throne totter, it needs the support of the
> masses."
>
> Francis
>
> On 6 Feb., 23:32, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Fran,
> > I really don't have much of a philosophy that I'm seriously committed
> > to. More or less I just like to get riled up. I WISH I was committed
> > to a philosophy, or a view of the world. If pushed, I do get quite
> > sick of the world though that you espouse. I long for the type of
> > society that Nietzsche speaks of. He spoke so very highly of pre-
> > Socratic greece. Society such as Sparta, and pre-Socratic Athens.
> > Those were cultures that gloried in strength. They didn't adopt the
> > slave mentality that Christianity has heaped upon us all.
>
> > Its so popular now for us to speak so badly of Christianity, and yet
> > what we don't realize is that the world is by and large Christian,
> > whether they know it or not. No of course they don't say they believe
> > in Jesus. No, they don't read the Bible. No, they probably don't
> > even believe in God. But as far as philosophy and world view goes,
> > they are died in the wool Christian. Its the Judeo-Christian world
> > view that Nietzsche pointed out gives birth to Nihilism. Judeo-
> > Christian world view is based on slave mentality. It breeds a culture
> > of weaklings. Those who would otherwise be strong and powerful and
> > contribute to a strong and powerful culture, they get driven down into
> > the dust by slave morality, and everyone is equally pathetic.
>
> > This is what I am on about today. If you want the honest truth, Bush
> > was an evangelical Christian, and was part of the problem, not the
> > solution. But relatively speaking, he was stronger and less pathetic
> > than most.
>
> > On Feb 6, 3:16 pm, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Craig, I find your world-view strange and hard to understand. What is
> > > "today's pansy laden society?" I am an Irishman, living in Germany. I
> > > do not perceive and experience either the country of my birth, or the
> > > country in which I live, as "downtrodden and defeated". We are all
> > > going through a rough time at the moment (and it will get worse) as a
> > > result of greed and stupidity in those responsible for economic
> > > affairs in our societies. Such a crisis calls us to examine the
> > > principles according to which we organise our communal life and effect
> > > changes. As such, it is also an opportunity.
>
> > > I have the impression - I may be mistaken - that you see a particular
> > > model/interpretation of the "American way of life", as being
> > > simultaneously better than all others and under acute threat, both
> > > from within the US and without. I do not share this way of looking at
> > > the world. I live in a western European country, where much, like
> > > everywhere else, is imperfect and some things are in a bit of a mess.
> > > Nevertheless, I feel free and secure. It is a society where a basic
> > > level of assent and consent is present, where, generally, peace, the
> > > rule of law and a strong sense of civil rights prevail. It is a
> > > culture which, with some exceptions, does have a sense of fundamental
> > > decency, where there is a basic solidarity with those who are weaker
> > > and a deeply-rooted desire to hand a more or less viable world on to
> > > our children and grandchildren.
>
> > > The Cold War has been over for twenty years now, and I do not feel
> > > threatened by the East. I do see a future in which the most populous
> > > nations of the world (in particular, the Asian countries of China and
> > > India) will have much more influence on a global scale, something
> > > which is only just, giving that the two nations I have mentioned alone
> > > are home to one third of the world's population. I think there is a
> > > good chance that their continuing economic development will be
> > > paralleled (causally, it could be argued) by positive developments in
> > > civil society (I'm thinking of China particularly here). But maybe one
> > > of the lessons we can learn from the Bush era is that these
> > > developments will not be furthered by forcing a particular vision of
> > > how societies should be ordered through the barrel of a gun, or
> > > economic bullying. The developing countries, as well as the tiger
> > > economies, have an acute sense of having been historically dominated
> > > and exploited by the west - rightly for the most part - and this makes
> > > them sensitive about and suspicious of what they perceive as
> > > condescending preaching (and incidental defense of the status quo) by
> > > the West.
>
> > > The values formulated in the Enlightenment - liberty, equality,
> > > tolerance, representative government, due process and the rule of law,
> > > basic solidarity as the foundation of society are embodied (in many
> > > respects, imperfectly) in the USA and the Western democracies. They
> > > are values worth standing up for. I believe, however, that example is
> > > the most potent force and that consistent adherence to these values
> > > (and their more perfect realisation) in our own societies, and the
> > > positive results resulting from this, are the strongest arguments for
> > > their more widespread adoption.
>
> > > Where these values - and our societies - are attacked, we must, of
> > > course, resist. However, the path of resistance pursued by the Bush
> > > administration for the past seven years has not been crowned with any
> > > great measure of success.
>
> > > Francis
>
> > > On 6 Feb., 20:52, Kierkecraig <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > Chris, I didn't say my defense of Bush was easy. It makes it
> > > > especially hard when he bent over, grabbed his ankles, and invited the
> > > > democrats to do their business. The bailout was Bush trying to save
> > > > face after being completely humiliated and destroyed by the MSM. But,
> > > > nevertheless, I defend him. In fact I'm surprised that a man like
> > > > Bush was even possible in today's pansy laden society. I think the
> > > > Bush administration was the last vestige we will see of any attempt at
> > > > strength by the American people. From here on out you can plan on us
> > > > exhibiting nothing but weakness. I think we will pretty much reflect
> > > > the likes of every downtrodden and defeated society in the West. From
> > > > here on out will see the East rise.
>
> > > > On Feb 6, 12:28 pm, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > Here's where we differ on that, Craig.
> > > > > We have 8 years of some fairly sizable errors in judgment, and crises
> > > > > of
> > > > > administration. Now, we have a new president who's been in office two
> > > > > weeks.
> > > > > You know I am more than willing and able to be critical as the need
> > > > > arises,
> > > > > but on what basis would you continue that administration, as opposed
> > > > > to
> > > > > trying out a new direction? The first bailout bill was the final act
> > > > > of
> > > > > Grand Larceny against the American People perpetrated by Bush's
> > > > > administration. I don't see how you wouldn't take umbrage with that.
>
> > > > > On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 2:21 PM, Kierkecraig <[email protected]>
> > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > I have no doubt I'm on my own. I defend him when no one else will.
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