I have worn lots of "hats", Francis. My parents were extraordinary. So
am I. A chip off the old block. :-)

On Jun 30, 2:02�am, frantheman <[email protected]> wrote:
> I echo Slip on this one, rigsy.
>
> As someone who grew up in the sixties and seventies, I am frequently
> amazed at the extent to which old role models, which many of us 30
> years ago assumed were on the way out, have persevered.
>
> Personally, I suspect that the large amount of women who chose to
> remain at home and be full-time Mommies are responsible for the
> perseverance of chauvenistic gender models among many young people,
> particularly young men. These are the role models, the hands rocking
> the cradle, who have taught their children that men are incapable of
> cooking, cleaning and nurturing and that women must be dependent on
> men for their material security.
>
> Even growing up in conservative Catholic Ireland, my experience and
> rearing was different. My mother always worked (she was a music
> teacher) and there were no distinctions made between boys and girls
> when it came to household chores in our family. My father retired
> seven years before my mother and took over the household completely
> during this period. Today, at 75, my mother is the one who is in
> contact with the world via internet, with an an active Facebook
> presence, uploading photos from her mobile phone and sending them to
> her grandchidren, enthusing about the updates in the composition
> software which allows her to produce printed sheet music for the 4-
> part chorales with orchestration, which she composes on the electric
> piano patched into her PC. My father won't touch the thing!
>
> We all have our own stories, mostly resulting from the choices we made
> - even if the consequences of those choices weren't always clear to us
> at the time. We should be careful about generalising from our
> particular personal experiences.
>
> Francis
>
> On 30 Jun., 05:16, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I personally don't see it as an unfortunate role. � I see that some
> > women see it as an unfortunate role.
>
> > I've always had the feeling that you, rigsy, were never all that
> > thrilled with the marital/motherhood roles. Comments you have made in
> > the past like...........
>
> > "The world belongs to men. Children are sandbags to a woman's dream."
>
> > It is your statement that labels it the unfortunate role. � I would
> > say it is an unfortunate role for those who are unhappy with it. �The
> > sandbags as you call them got in the way of your dreams.
>
> > You also stated;
> > "I don't think men and women are equal. Men can move along. Women must
> > be the good mother and nurture their children. Provide an example-
> > blah-blah blah. It's
> > biology or the lessons from lions. "
>
> > This again does not sound like you are overly joyed with it. �I just
> > get the impression that you are somewhat disgruntled with the whole
> > picture and my post is a reflection of that.
>
> > I should revise my post as to indicate it's specific nature and not a
> > gender generalization.
> > My apology smology!
>
> > On Jun 29, 9:39�pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Also religious channels. What noose? Some women do not get, want,
> > > accept alimony and child support. Yes- we do have choices sometimes as
> > > simple as saying "no" othertimes accepting the consequences of saying
> > > "yes". And some beautiful women do not choose to use that beauty as a
> > > weapon or allurement- like a marketing tool. It is no small
> > > accomplishment to raise children to maturity and healthy adjustment as
> > > their caretaker- if that's what you see as motherhood- it's about 24
> > > years per child by the time they can really fly on their own. I
> > > enjoyed my motherhood years. Why do you see it as an "unfortunate
> > > role"?
>
> > > On Jun 29, 3:29 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > No dear woman, women use their sexuality because women are sexual
> > > > creatures capable of alluring the most formidable opponent. When
> > > > women realize the power of their sexuality they are not nearly women
> > > > but yet girls. It is a women's unfortunate role that leads to
> > > > entrapment within a circle of the offspring caretaker, and you are
> > > > right, we men can just move on, like lions we are free, like bears we
> > > > give the seed that gives the birth with which you are eternally
> > > > connected to. Don't blame us for our lot in life for we, no more than
> > > > you, have choice. It is only through legal political channels that you
> > > > have put a noose on our necks. When you submit you should be well
> > > > informed of the ramifications and in that sense it takes one.
>
> > > > On Jun 29, 2:30 pm, rigsy03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > I have been in those situations, as well, which are sincere friendly
> > > > > gestures but I have also seen the corrupted routine both in business
> > > > > and social relations which are basically a form of control. Women use
> > > > > their sexuality because the culture has fostered its rewards. It takes
> > > > > two.
>
> > > > > On Jun 29, 4:50 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > When I moved into my community the welcoming committee came by to 
> > > > > > drop
> > > > > > off a basket full of gifts as a way of saying hello. We took the
> > > > > > gifts and had a great time without feeling any need for
> > > > > > reciprocation. I had a neighbor give me two tickets to the symphony
> > > > > > because he and his wife could not go on that date, they were great
> > > > > > seats. He never came by to ask any favors and a year later they 
> > > > > > moved
> > > > > > away. I give away gifts all the time and think that giving begins a
> > > > > > cycle of giving. Those that receive learn that giving can be as
> > > > > > rewarding as receiving. I can see that in the business world buying
> > > > > > lavish gifts for the management might be construed as a request for
> > > > > > special treatment and I have seen some fine women climb the 
> > > > > > corporate
> > > > > > ladder via their sexual prowess, if that can be considered a gift.
>
> > > > > > On Jun 29, 1:08 am, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > I wonder why may I accept a ' gift ' from someone who I do not 
> > > > > > > even
> > > > > > > know, to whom I myself have never offered one ( gift ) or ( left 
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > myself ) would never desire to !
>
> > > > > > > " Integrity does not have to be lost upon the receipt of a gift."
>
> > > > > > > Read the first para. Why else would one accept a gift ? Unless it 
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > token, read ' costing next to nothing,' say, flowers.
>
> > > > > > > On Jun 29, 9:21 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Gifts are good, I like gifts, what's wrong with gifts? 
> > > > > > > > Integrity does
> > > > > > > > not have to be lost upon the receipt of a gift. A gift should 
> > > > > > > > not be
> > > > > > > > preconceived as a bribe. The corrupted have made it so because 
> > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > took gifts in exchange for favor but this does not set a 
> > > > > > > > standard. We
> > > > > > > > continually diminish our quality of life on the basis of those 
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > are unethical, why let them ruin it for the rest of us? Give and
> > > > > > > > Receive without strings!
>
> > > > > > > > On Jun 28, 10:56 pm, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > accepting business gifts should be
>
> > > > > > > > > > totally unacceptable behavior, both by the giver and the 
> > > > > > > > > > receiver. -iam
>
> > > > > > > > > I agree only in the public sector. I work for the State so 
> > > > > > > > > pretty
> > > > > > > > > much the same thing applies to me. While people still accept 
> > > > > > > > > tickets
> > > > > > > > > to sporting events and lunches and cases of booze on the 
> > > > > > > > > holidays and
> > > > > > > > > complimentary fishing/hunting trips; it really is graft and 
> > > > > > > > > shouldn't
> > > > > > > > > be done. However, in the private sector this is often how 
> > > > > > > > > things are
> > > > > > > > > done. It's how the service provider buys access. Tax money 
> > > > > > > > > isn't
> > > > > > > > > used to pay for the services so I don't have a problem with 
> > > > > > > > > it. If
> > > > > > > > > large corporations didn't use this technique to gain access 
> > > > > > > > > to foreign
> > > > > > > > > potential customers we would never get their business.
>
> > > > > > > > > I commend your wife on her integrity. It's a rare trait.
>
> > > > > > > > > dj
>
> > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2009 at 8:00 AM, iam 
> > > > > > > > > deheretic<[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > Chomsky has my vote along with slipsky of course.
>
> > > > > > > > > > Well the Palestinian people elected one party and the US 
> > > > > > > > > > and Israel would
> > > > > > > > > > only support the losers. Radical changes are going to need 
> > > > > > > > > > to be made,, but
> > > > > > > > > > There is the lingering doubt that the will is there. I am 
> > > > > > > > > > hoping for health
> > > > > > > > > > care, but as long as the politicians are exempt from the 
> > > > > > > > > > bribery laws it
> > > > > > > > > > will never happen.
>
> > > > > > > > > > I am looking at the difference in countries. My wife is the 
> > > > > > > > > > officer in
> > > > > > > > > > charge of quality control for the fire department.. and she 
> > > > > > > > > > was offered
> > > > > > > > > > tickets for her and me to a polo match free. Well we had to 
> > > > > > > > > > turn them down
> > > > > > > > > > and make a report of it. It has to do with honesty in 
> > > > > > > > > > government.
>
> > > > > > > > > > The truth is I am glad to see that there are people 
> > > > > > > > > > watching and much more
> > > > > > > > > > of it needs to occur, every where ,, accepting business 
> > > > > > > > > > gifts should be
> > > > > > > > > > totally unacceptable behavior, both by the giver and the 
> > > > > > > > > > receiver.
> > > > > > > > > > Allan
>
> > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 10:57 PM, Molly Brogan 
> > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>
> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > >> Here is Noam Chomsky's take on it:
>
> > > > > > > > > >>http://books.google.com/books?id=yDhGoR6yU8AC&dq=Noam+Chomsky+anarchy...
>
> > > > > > > > > >> On Jun 27, 4:27 pm, iam deheretic <[email protected]> 
> > > > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >> > Collective anger is interesting . It leaves me wondering 
> > > > > > > > > >> > who is
> > > > > > > > > >> > controlling
> > > > > > > > > >> > it. In Red Handed discussion there is tremendous 
> > > > > > > > > >> > violence demonstrated
> > > > > > > > > >> > and
>
> ...
>
> read more �- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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