I really do agree with you on the pardon concept.. When you look at it,, Nixon's crime was simply being nosy.. and to get on caring on the business of the nation being appointed in the appointed right of succession. He was right. In Bush administration's case we are dealing with crimes against humanity and war crimes.. those crimes are not against the laws of the US. When you start violating international laws as citizens of the USA we have an obligation to the world to prosecute them in order to assist and discourage these type of crimes from happening again.
Being crimes against humanity we do not have the right to pardon them. Allan On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 1:46 AM, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > > We disagree on the issues iam. Regardless of the corruptness of the > Bush administration(i'm not going to argue the merits here) the fact > is it's bad policy to vilify and prosecute outgoing administrations. > It's a waste of time and effort and puts the incoming admin. at great > risk of reciprocal action when they leave office. The best thing > Ford ever did was pardon Nixon. Brutal dictators don't have this > problem because they never leave office. Chavez has solved this > problem by making himself President for Life. We here in the U.S. > still have a representative government(mostly) so Obama and co. should > tread carefully with persecuting those they have replaced. The Obama > administration has some very smart people in it, they know what I've > just said is true and I believe the witch hunt is over. I know this > disappoints you but you'll just have to get used to it. > > dj > > > On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 6:24 AM, iam deheretic<[email protected]> wrote: > > Don this is a very important document along with the bill of rights. On > the > > 4th of July we need to examine how they have been violated by any > > administration especially the Bush administration over his term in > office, > > examine the patriot act for violations of those basic rights. and the > > activities of all government agencies and corporations for violations and > > infringing on these rights. > > > > The rule of law needs to be returned to the American people getting them > out > > from under the oppressive rule of the corporations. it needs to be one > man > > one vote, with no super votes.. Corporations need to be stripped of their > > rights as citizens. refusing them super citizenship. When corporations > > commit a felony (and they do) they need to be stripped of all legal > > protection exposing the share holders of that corporation to the full > extent > > of damages for the crimes their corporations commit. No one should be > > allowed to profit from the commission of crimes. > > > > Taxes need to be implemented so that all people pay according to their > > means, translated the more you make the more you pay and rightly so. > > Corporations moving money over seas need to have that money taxed so thy > pay > > their fair share of taxes. > > > > When these start to unfold then the USA will be the last great hope. as > it > > is it is simple , I am saddened to say is counted among the failed > states. > > Allan > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Ya know, this is really just one big, fat, apology... > >> > >> IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776 > >> The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America > >> > >> When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people > >> to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another > >> and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal > >> station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, > >> a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should > >> declare the causes which impel them to the separation. > >> > >> We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created > >> equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable > >> Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of > >> Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted > >> among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the > >> governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive > >> of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish > >> it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such > >> principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall > >> seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, > >> indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be > >> changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience > >> hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are > >> sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which > >> they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, > >> pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them > >> under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to > >> throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future > >> security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; > >> and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their > >> former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great > >> Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having > >> in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these > >> States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world. > >> > >> He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary > >> for the public good. > >> > >> He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing > >> importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should > >> be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend > >> to them. > >> > >> He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large > >> districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of > >> Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and > >> formidable to tyrants only. > >> > >> He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, > >> uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their Public > >> Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with > >> his measures. > >> > >> He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with > >> manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people. > >> > >> He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause > >> others to be elected, whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of > >> Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; > >> the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of > >> invasion from without, and convulsions within. > >> > >> He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that > >> purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; > >> refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and > >> raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands. > >> > >> He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent > >> to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers. > >> > >> He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their > >> offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries. > >> > >> He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of > >> Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance. > >> > >> He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the > >> Consent of our legislatures. > >> > >> He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to > >> the Civil Power. > >> > >> He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to > >> our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to > >> their Acts of pretended Legislation: > >> > >> For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us: > >> > >> For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders > >> which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States: > >> > >> For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world: > >> > >> For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent: > >> > >> For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury: > >> > >> For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences: > >> > >> For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring > >> Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging > >> its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit > >> instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies > >> > >> For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and > >> altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments: > >> > >> For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested > >> with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever. > >> > >> He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his > >> Protection and waging War against us. > >> > >> He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and > >> destroyed the lives of our people. > >> > >> He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to > >> compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun > >> with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the > >> most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized > >> nation. > >> > >> He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas > >> to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of > >> their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands. > >> > >> He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured > >> to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian > >> Savages whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction > >> of all ages, sexes and conditions. > >> > >> In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in > >> the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only > >> by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every > >> act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free > >> people. > >> > >> Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We > >> have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to > >> extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of > >> the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have > >> appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured > >> them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, > >> which would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. > >> They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. > >> We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our > >> Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in > >> War, in Peace Friends. > >> > >> We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in > >> General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the > >> world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by > >> Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and > >> declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free > >> and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to > >> the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and > >> the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and > >> that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, > >> conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all > >> other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And > >> for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the > >> protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our > >> Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor. > >> > >> — John Hancock > >> > >> New Hampshire: > >> Josiah Bartlett, William Whipple, Matthew Thornton > >> > >> Massachusetts: > >> John Hancock, Samuel Adams, John Adams, Robert Treat Paine, Elbridge > Gerry > >> > >> Rhode Island: > >> Stephen Hopkins, William Ellery > >> > >> Connecticut: > >> Roger Sherman, Samuel Huntington, William Williams, Oliver Wolcott > >> > >> New York: > >> William Floyd, Philip Livingston, Francis Lewis, Lewis Morris > >> > >> New Jersey: > >> Richard Stockton, John Witherspoon, Francis Hopkinson, John Hart, > Abraham > >> Clark > >> > >> Pennsylvania: > >> Robert Morris, Benjamin Rush, Benjamin Franklin, John Morton, George > >> Clymer, James Smith, George Taylor, James Wilson, George Ross > >> > >> Delaware: > >> Caesar Rodney, George Read, Thomas McKean > >> > >> Maryland: > >> Samuel Chase, William Paca, Thomas Stone, Charles Carroll of Carrollton > >> > >> Virginia: > >> George Wythe, Richard Henry Lee, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Harrison, > >> Thomas Nelson, Jr., Francis Lightfoot Lee, Carter Braxton > >> > >> North Carolina: > >> William Hooper, Joseph Hewes, John Penn > >> > >> South Carolina: > >> Edward Rutledge, Thomas Heyward, Jr., Thomas Lynch, Jr., Arthur > Middleton > >> > >> Georgia: > >> Button Gwinnett, Lyman Hall, George Walton > >> > >> > >> On Fri, Jul 3, 2009 at 4:44 AM, Don Johnson<[email protected]> wrote: > >> > While us Americans prepare to celebrate the 4th of July people are > >> > still being slaughtered in Iran. We continue to receive news mostly > >> > from hidden video and twitter. Our media response is limp and our > >> > political response is practically non-existent. It saddens me more > >> > then angers me. > >> > > >> > http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124657699261689193.html > >> > > >> > This is what I was taught in school. Back when it was cool to love > >> > your country. P.J. O'Rourke sums it up nicely in a typically arrogant > >> > hyperbolic fashion: > >> > > >> > “We’re the baddest-assed sons of bitches that ever jogged in Reeboks. > >> > We’re three-quarters grizzly bear and two-thirds car wreck and > >> > descended from a stock market crash on our mother’s side. You take > >> > your Germany, France and Spain, roll them all together and it won’t > >> > give us room to park our cars. We’re the big boys, Jack, the original, > >> > giant, economy-sized, new and improved butt kickers of all time. When > >> > we snort coke in Houston, people lose their hats in Cap d’Antibes. And > >> > we’ve got an American Express card credit limit higher than your piss- > >> > ant metric numbers go." > >> > > >> > Well ok, maybe the credit limit has suffered. (;-) > >> > > >> > dj > >> > > >> > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > ( > > ) > > I_D Allan > > > > > > > > > > > -- ( ) I_D Allan --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
