Excellent debate rules, I'll follow them in a GENERAL manner. ;-) I'll try to use IMO more often. I'm used to stating opinion bluntly in rolling chat rooms where replies and subsequent clearing of misunderstandings is immediate. I can see in this bulletin board format it is useful to use debate rules.
Although Obama may be doing something about Iran to the world he seems to be doing nothing. If you have news to the contrary I'd be happy to know about it. I have some genuine concern we will be legitimatizing whatever rogue government survives. Sets a bad example to the rest of the world and whatever hopes some might have for freedom in their countries when the president's response is not specifically condemning to an obvious brutal theocracy. Our media is more concerned with the death of a pop star then the death of fetal freedom. IMO. dj On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 1:22 PM, ornamentalmind<[email protected]> wrote: > > Don, I seldom limit my responses to specific argument/debate rules. I > do my best to be honest, clear, use an emoticon when using irony or > humor, etc. > However, since you so nicely asked, while the information online is > almost endless, here is a simple list of a few methods we all could > use to keep our discussions going with less misunderstanding and/or > strife. > > http://www.paulnoll.com/Books/Clear-English/debate-advice.html > > I must admit that when very sloppy thinking, such as making > unconscious assumptions that may not hold water, is used, I become a > bit rattled. I see it a lot. For some reason, I decided to go to your > most recent post ...even though I didn't expand and in effect used > 'you are wrong' comments rather than an expanded reasoning in most > cases. > > No, I didn't google obama concerned. I have enough humor in other > realms in my life! ;-) > > When he was a legislator, I did look up his entire voting record and > then compared the 'present' votes with what others did. I found he > merely adapted to his environment and used that vote like the others > do/did. So, in this way I couldn't fault him more than the entire > group. In other ways, overall, I find him no more deceptive nor > lacking in integrity than his colleagues so don’t hold him up to > ridicule as I do and have done with other leaders who stood out in > these areas. I know this is a sad commentary on our current day > political processes…and, that is the way it is. > > > On Jul 6, 1:47 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: >> Yeah, I can be bombastic. Nice word by the way, I'd heard it before >> but had to look it up anyway. I generally try to be heavy on the >> humor and don't spare myself in the self-depreciation department, I'm >> well aware I'm a poor writer. Poor spelling and an unfortunate habit >> of ending sentences in prepositions not the least of my problems. The >> quotes you've provided are indeed a nice representation of my 'style.' >> I also tend to use sarcasm, by the way, another weak argument tactic. >> >> The 'voting present' comment was well used. It's a tactic used by >> politicians to show opposition without the political fallout of >> actually opposing a measure. As a leader, one generally doesn't have >> this luxury. Obama is apparently still trying to employ it. >> Doesn't seem to be working as well for him as it did when he was in >> the legislature. Now people expect him to DO something. As I've said >> before, he's a smart guy and hopefully he'll figure this out soon and >> I really hope what he does isn't along the lines of genuflecting to >> whatever despot ends up in control of Iran. >> >> Not being completely void of vanity I am gratified that you felt the >> need to copy so much of my 'work' in your post. I'd greatly >> appreciated it if you would give me some fine examples of what you >> consider good argument skills in reply rather then brief two or three >> word denials. Did you try the 'Obama concerned' google? It really is >> kinda funny seeing all that together on one page. Then try to see >> what he's actually doing about it. Not a whole lot of info available. >> I tend to hold my leaders accountable. I did it with Bush and I'll >> do the same with Obama. >> >> dj >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jul 5, 2009 at 12:01 PM, ornamentalmind<[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> > Don, I’m learning about your hyperbolic and somewhat bombastic writing >> > style. And, in particular, the gratuitous use of innuendo. >> > Examples: “I was lamenting the fact that we are hearing and seeing >> > something >> > truly extraordinary and yet we are apparently doing nothing about >> > it.” (not true) >> > “This makes Gitmo and Abu Graib(anybody remember that?) look like a >> > sweet 16 party.” (entirely dissimilar analogy) >> > “. It's like page 6 somewhere near the bottom news, if >> > that.” (not true) >> > “where is the leader of the free world on this?” (well known) >> > “Try this, google 'Obama concerned' and check out all the hits. It'd >> > be hilarious if it wasn't so depressing. He's the most concerned >> > president in history and yet he's so nuanced he doesn't do anything >> > but say how concerned he is” – (entirely untrue) >> > “He's still voting 'present.'” (where? When he did it in congress, it >> > was absolutely no more than the rest of those in congress did. Check >> > it out.) “Amazing.” (not so much) >> > “And no, I'm not all right, I think I've managed to rupture my spleen >> > thinking about this.” (while I care about those who are ill, hurting >> > ones self seems less sympathetic. For sure it makes for a poor >> > argument.) >> >> > On Jul 5, 1:47 am, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I was lamenting the fact that we are hearing and seeing something >> >> truly extraordinary and yet we are apparently doing nothing about it. >> >> This makes Gitmo and Abu Graib(anybody remember that?) look like a >> >> sweet 16 party. It's like page 6 somewhere near the bottom news, if >> >> that. WTF? While this is encouraging... >> >> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/world/middleeast/05iran.html?_r=1&r... >> >> >> where is the leader of the free world on this? Try this, google >> >> 'Obama concerned' and check out all the hits. It'd be hilarious if it >> >> wasn't so depressing. He's the most concerned president in history >> >> and yet he's so nuanced he doesn't do anything but say how concerned >> >> he is. He's still voting 'present.' Amazing. And no, I'm not all >> >> right, I think I've managed to rupture my spleen thinking about this. >> >> >> Oh, and just who is it that are pulling the >> >> >> > puppet strings of our leaders? -gruff >> >> >> The Illuminati of course. In league with visitors from outer space. I >> >> just hope they're not here to eat us. >> >> >> The day we send our ex-politicians off to the UN to be tried is the >> >> day we are officially dead as a world leader. That doesn't happen to >> >> super powers. We may be winding down as a super power but we aren't >> >> finished yet. No sir, not yet. >> >> >> dj >> >> >> On Sat, Jul 4, 2009 at 11:18 PM, gruff<[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> > If anyone is offended or put off by an all-in-one reply to a number of >> >> > posts, please let me know. >> >> >> > Don, I don't want to rain on your 4th but there is rejoicing to be had >> >> > hiding in the midst of the slaughter. What is the news is that it is >> >> > received from hidden cell phone videos and twitter. And that news >> >> > celebrates freedom. The freedom that happens when a government can no >> >> > longer keep the voice of it's people locked up and shut away. That is >> >> > the freedom that moves me the most this 4th of July. It's a new >> >> > freedom that most people don't realize has emerged as yet. >> >> >> > And yeah. It was an apology. Gee, George, we're real sorry but we're >> >> > taking our leave of you and shake the dust off our sleeves in the >> >> > process. The iconic phrase 'dear john' should really be a 'dear >> >> > george'. However, I do think the signers went a little overboard with >> >> > the details. A few cursory acknowledgments should have been >> >> > sufficient given that we merely did what we could as soon as it became >> >> > financially feasible. We were lucky we didn't have to face off all >> >> > of Europe with what we were trying to pull off. A fully elected >> >> > government? My god, man. What were we thinking? >> >> >> > iam, we are completely and securely sheltered under the rule of law. >> >> > It never went anywhere. It just got stronger. And eliminate the >> >> > corporations? Because that's what would happen if you took away their >> >> > status as persons. That would be as bad a jolt as the elimination of >> >> > all the banks. Everything would come to a screeching halt. Riots >> >> > would erupt like instant cancers across the land. Why would you wish >> >> > something like that? I don't think you really meant that, did you? >> >> >> > And Jackson? I was just beginning to think we as a species may be >> >> > behaving rationally when along comes this circus with half the world >> >> > drooling over the center ring and who's that in the box office >> >> > twirling his mustache and counting the lucre? That and letting some >> >> > sports event preempt the Nightly World News. They both ring of >> >> > idiocy. >> >> >> > Tinker, think about it. The rule of law is not supposed to be in the >> >> > hands of the people. It's supposed to be in the hands of government. >> >> > That is one of the reasons people create governments. Otherwise we'd >> >> > have pretty much ad hoc chaos. Rules are necessary on several levels, >> >> > but I find a general rule of law in civil torts that's we are all held >> >> > to. Civil law in most developed nation is based on the concept of >> >> > fair dealing and the behavior of a prudent person. The standard is >> >> > laid out in four elements. There must be a duty to behave in a >> >> > certain manner. That duty must have been violated. That violation >> >> > must have caused damages for which people then turn to the courts for >> >> > reparation. We can't just whip out our swords and chase down the bad >> >> > guy ourselves anymore. Oh, and just who is it that are pulling the >> >> > puppet strings of our leaders? I'd like to have their names. Your >> >> > rant seems to be winding up and becoming somewhat frenetic. Are you >> >> > all right? >> >> >> > Don, it may not be up to just the people of the United States to >> >> > decide whether to go after past administrations for anything like war >> >> > crimes. We've done it and other nations do it all the time and it's >> >> > possible one of our allies or even a neutral middle-east nation might >> >> > be able to investigate and prosecute perceived war crimes. We >> >> > certainly did it after WWII, Korea, Vietnam, and probably every other >> >> > war. >> >> >> > As a for real right now for instance, the U.N. recently launched an >> >> > investigation into Arizona's wild west Sheriff Joe Arpaio for human >> >> > rights violations. I mean, everything is still quiet down here, but I >> >> > think the reality and shock of it may have not yet worn off. The U.N. >> >> > aimed right for the jaws of the beast tackling the most popular >> >> > sheriff in Arizona. Joe's already told the press he's not afraid of a >> >> > U.N. investigation. He's trying to go down in hisory with the other >> >> > Arizona greats. Earp, Holliday, Dillon, Cartwright and Little Joe. >> >> > Arpaio was recently elected to his third term as Sheriff of Maricopa >> >> > County. >> >> >> > Rigsy, I'm sorry, but at one time or another about half the country >> >> > felt like you do now, and about half feels the other way. Actually, >> >> > slightly more than half. That's what it's like astride a democracy in >> >> > action. Imagine what it's like in a nation where rebels overnight >> >> > take over the government where you live? >> >> >> > The Force is copyrighted? How can that be? It's ... its ... The >> >> > Force? >> >> >> > Nixon was real dirty but I still liked the guy. I think he did a lot >> >> > of good. But he got caught with his hand in the pot wrapped around >> >> > the smoking gun with a shit-eating grin on his face. He had to fall. >> >> > Either that or shoot it out with the people. And in the instant >> >> > issue, I don't think you can prosecute someone for being stupid. Now >> >> > Cheney, he may be a feather off a different horse along with a few >> >> > other second round hitters. I wouldn't mind seeing Ashcroft go to >> >> ... >> >> read more »- Hide quoted text - >> >> - Show quoted text - > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Minds-Eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
