I also find myself agreeing with Don on one thing here. Violence is now has been in the past and I think will contiune to be a solution for us. How can we expect to even start preaching that it is not a solution, all the time we have standing armed forces engaged around the world?
As to apathy and rewards, I have to say Crap Don, total crap I'm afraid. When you start life without any sort of advantages like money for example, then right from the very start you come out fighting, after a while and noticing that for all the fight your life is not improving then apathy is bound to set in. What is immoral then is that we give people no aid in which to better their own situations. As to all they need being provided, not by a very long shot is that correct, a man on the dole does not have all he needs he barely has the basics of what he needs, which explians why those on long term benifits are bound to cheat. I not deny that the welfare system in this country needs an overhaul, but it must remain, we must help those who need help. On 6 Oct, 03:53, Don Johnson <[email protected]> wrote: > You can't spend your way out poverty Slip. Statistics show a > surprising number of poor people that win the lottery and take the > cash option(generally the smarter move) are broke 10 years later. We > can build all the tenements and projects we want and those places will > invariably return to trash in the near future because some people just > won't help themselves. When apathy is rewarded it makes it difficult > for some to see the benefits in working themselves into a better way > of life when all they need is provided gratis. I personally feel it's > morally wrong. > > By the way. Violence IS a solution. Very often it is the most > economical and effective solution. This is why it will continue to be > implemented by individuals and governments until the end of time. It > just so happens it makes me sick to my stomach. > > dj > > > > On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Cynical? > > > Woestehoff says this investigation is long overdue. She complains that > > wealthy and well-connected parents have long-been throwing around > > their clout on behalf of their children. The rules ought to be the > > same for everybody. But, you know, this is Chicago. And we know that > > in Chicago there’s an expectation that a certain group of people who > > have power will be able to get their children into any school. > > Unqualified students who have parents with clout aren’t just attending > > public high schools. The issue has also plagued top officials at the > > University of Illinois in recent months. They’re accused of admitting > > hundreds of unqualified students. The scandal involves the president > > of the university along with many high-ranking elected officials. > > A state panel investigating the admissions process recently > > recommended every trustee on the board resign and yesterday, the > > chairman of the board did just that. > > >http://www.chicagopublicradio.org/Content.aspx?audioID=35938 > > > Absurd? > > > Admissions clout clearly thrived in places where families were > > politically savvy and well-positioned to tap into connections with > > elected officials and university trustees, said educators and other > > observers. > > Just how skewed was the campus clout list? Half of the 616 Illinois > > students who received preferential treatment from 2005 to 2009 > > graduated from just 22 high schools, all but one in the metro area. > > Meanwhile, at least 668 Illinois high schools had no clouted > > applicants at all. > > >http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-clout-schools-17-jul17,0... > > > There's more as you must know. I didn't apply anything to the world > > at large, clearly the elite school comment was pertinent to Chicago > > but I will admit that I think it does go on in other parts of the > > country and the world. Besides, you should understand that I'm > > addressing the fact that poverty, while there are exceptions, is a > > nurtured aspect of the world. It's Marx distinction between the > > powerful and the powerless, the establishment of a social strata which > > is prevalent in many parts of the world, fact is I don't know of any > > off hand that function without it, some are worst than others. Truth > > is if the world sincerely wanted to rid itself of poverty it would > > end. Bulldozers would raze the ghettos and decent affordable housing > > would be built, bankrupt farms would be financially rescued, revived > > and enabled to productive feed the world acreage, the same goes for > > much of the failed small business's that translate into jobs. But of > > course that wouldn't be all too profitable to the stock market, > > investment capitalists and bankers. Better the not so 'well to do' > > bail them out when they need help, no? Isn't it all so obvious, or is > > is just me? > > > On Oct 5, 6:11 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Chicago's elite public schools, the ones that parents are bedding with > >> aristocracy in exchange for their kids enrollment. > > >> very cynical, Slip. Inner city schools have additional problems that > >> come with poverty, there is not doubt about that. But to state that > >> other schools in any state provide more services because parents are > >> bedding with aristocracy is, well, absurd. You seem to take the worst > >> case scenario and apply it to the world at large. > > >> On Oct 5, 6:26 pm, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > Well Molly, your examples merely confirm my comment that "little" > >> > effort is made. I wouldn't say that the examples reflect a great deal > >> > of effort. Sure there are organizations that combat numerous problems > >> > but overall results are insignificant. Things haven't really changed > >> > all that much, have they? > > >> > I'm not assuming that "all" children are experiencing the same thing > >> > and I would think you should know better than that. Of course there > >> > are better schools, better standards and better students. I'm simply > >> > addressing the obvious problems. It wouldn't make sense to talk about > >> > Chicago's elite public schools, the ones that parents are bedding with > >> > aristocracy in exchange for their kids enrollment. It's about inner > >> > city mentality and the mentality of those who contribute to the > >> > development of inner cities across the country and around the world. > > >> > On Oct 5, 1:15 pm, Molly Brogan <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > "I feel that little sincere effort is made towards nurturing peace", > >> > > SD > > >> > > I disagree, and offer some of the following organizations that are > >> > > active in nurturing peace in > >> > > societies:http://www.cnvc.org/http://www.americanhumane.org/protecting-children... > > >> > > "We don't actually try to instill attitudes of peace but relay the > >> > > idea that violence is a solution." SD > > >> > > You may be encouraged to know that most Middle and High Schools in the > >> > > US have made diversity and non violence a big part of their > >> > > curriculum, mission and code of conduct. Often their state funding > >> > > depends on it. There are certainly messages out there that our > >> > > children receive, that give the idea that violence is a solution. But > >> > > we do, as a society, in the public school system, give alternative > >> > > ideas. It would be nice to think that kids get that at home also. We > >> > > all know this is not always the case. > > >> > > It would be a mistake to watch the video of the gang fight in Chicago > >> > > and assume that all of our children experience this or that our > >> > > schools do nothing to instill attitudes of non violence. > > >> > > "It's all about self preservation and greed." That may be part of it, > >> > > but is not all of it. There is a great big green movement out there > >> > > trying to save the world, and the angry, mean green meme are willing > >> > > to fight anyone they have to to do it. This is a developmental stage > >> > > of the individual's ability to work in a group, and not, I think, a > >> > > reflection of our ability as a whole to progress. People fight. They > >> > > fight for, they fight against, they just fight to fight. Why is the > >> > > question. I think that those of us who have not learned that peace > >> > > makes life more livable, meaning, improves the quality of life and our > >> > > relations exponentially, just keep fighting until they do learn it. > > >> > > On Oct 5, 10:56 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > >> > > > Leave it to Cleaver! lol > > >> > > > To address the whole of it I would say the same as in another thread, > >> > > > peoples minds are up for grabs. I can't say that it is all about > >> > > > identity issues but there seems to be a degree of self representation > >> > > > in what people absorb from the external. The advertising industry > >> > > > knows this very well and promotes products in a way that bolsters the > >> > > > human ego. From the big truck to the elitist mustard the sell is > >> > > > based on that simple appeal. > >> > > > As far as television and movies I do believe that they have an affect > >> > > > on society. The presentations on the tube or screen are no better > >> > > > than the people in control of the industry, which as we all know > >> > > > doesn't run high in the ethics and morals department. Either way the > >> > > > offerings of non violent role model presentations are next to none. > >> > > > There have been many studies that show how young children act out > >> > > > violently after watching a movie containing violence. > > >> > > > Excerpt: > >> > > > Societal influences help foment violent behavior. The images that > >> > > > populate mass media actually have the longest-lasting impact of all > >> > > > contributors to violence. Prolonged exposure to violent images > >> > > > increases the fear of becoming a victim, desensitizes violence, and > >> > > > heightens the viewer's appetite for similarly engaging in > >> > > > violence.http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/199403/violence-has-home-address > > >> > > > Violent and other antisocial behaviors involving children and > >> > > > adolescents are being > >> > > > blamed on the media. In the United States, controversy over the > >> > > > influence of > >> > > > the media on children remains intense. Yet more violent acts are > >> > > > depicted on tele- > >> > > > vision, sales of video games depicting death and destruction are > >> > > > skyrocketing, and > >> > > > many rock videos show violence as a viable means of conflict > >> > > > resolution. Efforts > >> > > > to limit the acts of violence shown in the media are met with the > >> > > > industry's consid- > >> > > > erable financial resources to resist responsible programming. > >> > > > Although > >> > > > media vio- > >> > > > lence is not the leading cause of real-life violence, it is a > >> > > > significant cause, and one > >> > > > that is easily remediable. The major components of > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
