On 28 Oct, 18:05, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote:
> Good thoughts all, Pat, but as noted, idealistic and utopian. Here's where
> it breaks down:
>
> 1. The intelligent and socially responsible agree that disarmament and
> non-competitive cooperation is the ideal, and take steps to make this a
> reality.
>
> 2. The brutes and anti-socials (chavs, if you will), recognize this
> accurately as a weakness, and come take all the possessions, liberties, and
> virginities of the rest of the group.
>
> Darwin accurately noted the brutality of nature, and it's only idealism and
> rank utopianism that allows us to believe that it could be anything else.
> Those who are raised up without the ability to recognize this, and compete
> accordingly, fail in the inevitable competitions which WILL occur. I'll buy
> your dream when one day goes by on this planet that a woman is not raped.
>
I completely agree that the world will always afford us
competitions but that they can be won by us all if we combine our
efforts. I have no problem with ideals or idealism, outside the fact
that they aren't striven towards. Possessions are a misnomer, liberty
fades in the face of a space-time continuum and viginity MUST fail if
we are all to survive to the next generation. The brutes, as you call
them, should then, as an act of compassion by the rest of us, be
removed. No doubt that's why we have no more Neanderthals--perhaps
the Cro-Magnon were more evolved spiritually and found that they HAD
to remove the brutes in order to survive to OUR stage.
If we want competitions in schools, rather than meaningless egg-n-
spoon races, why not have a competition to reforest an area and reward
the individual/class/school the excels in planting the most trees? At
least there's a tangible and beneficial result from the competition,
rather than a meaningless 'sport'.
I see no benefits to having what amounts to 'circuses' when there
are people (homeless and starving) who require bread. At least Rome
gave 'bread and circuses'; we only give circuses. How sad is THAT?
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On 28 Oct, 14:01, Ian Pollard <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > 2009/10/28 Pat <[email protected]>
>
> > > > Of course we have schools all wrong. We encourage children to
> > > > compete against one another--to score better on tests than their
> > > > peers, to excel at sports over their their peers and teach them that
> > > > the only way THEY will do well is if they can continue to beat
> > > > everyone else 'out there' in the real world.
>
> > > Totally wrong, Pat. This is exactly what we don't do any more in schools.
> > My
> > > nephew's recent sports day was pathetic. No prizes for the winners
> > (because
> > > "everyone was a winner")! What a fucking celebration of mediocrity.
>
> > Well, you can prove that by, first, adopting my system for a
> > generation (maybe 2) and seeing if it works better or not. Anything
> > else is just hot air. 'Sport' doesn't matter as much as getting along
> > with one another. And, if you think it does, then, I'm afraid, we'll
> > have to agree to disagree. Nothing lost in that. But nothing
> > gained.
>
> > > Unsurprisingly, the most popular schools -- and the ones with the highest
> > > level of achievement -- are the ones that are independent, fee paying,
> > and
> > > encourage competition in all areas.
>
> > But how many bright, poor, homeless people go there? Straw man,
> > I'm afraid. All of us are equally individual. I don't ascribe to
> > 'animal farm' ideals. Nor should you. Nor would I have thought you
> > would.
>
> > > We don't live in the kind of utopia you're philosophy requires, sadly;
> > > Darwinism still reigns.
>
> > Darwin, I would think, was intelligent enough to realise the value
> > of cooperation and coordination. If your liver started competing with
> > your pancreas, how long do you think you'd last? Our own bodies give
> > us the example of the obvious success of organisation, coordination
> > and cooperation and Darwin would agree with that. What reigns isn't
> > Darwinism, what reigns is caveman mentality--the bigger club/weapon
> > the better 'fit'. Bollocks. That reduces us to the least common
> > denominator rather than our highest ideals. We MUST get out of that
> > caveman thinking or we WILL be reduced back to that level.
>
> > > Ian- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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