Yes...advanced is the goal. However, the student begins with menial labor, and competing with his fellow students, which is what Ian and I have said from the beginning is necessary and ideal, and what you decried.
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Pat <[email protected]>wrote: > > > > On 29 Oct, 16:44, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > Correct. However, as I mentioned earlier, the only folks capable of > > protecting from the brutes are the one who have gained proficiency in > > violence through competition, yet are morally obligated to the group > seeking > > protection. > > > > You cannot become a fighter by happy thoughts. You must practice > fighting. > > > > True, but the master of Martial Arts avoids having to use them due > to his advanced philosophy. > > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Pat <[email protected] > >wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 29 Oct, 13:24, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Ah, so you DO see the need for violence, although couched in softer > > > terms: > > > > > > "The brutes, as you call them, should then, as an act of compassion > by > > > the > > > > rest of us, be removed." > > > > > > The very act of removal is competition, at its highest, most brutal > form, > > > > and if we had not been trained competitively in the circus, we would > not > > > > have the capability to "remove the brutes." Very likely, they would > > > remove > > > > us. Cro-Magnon man was able to survive over Neanderthal man because > he > > > ALSO > > > > carried a spear and rocks, and competed to survive. > > > > > Also, probably, a 'good reason' for the commandment to wipe out the > > > Amalekites. Violence, whilst not always necessary, is, of course, > > > sometimes vital to one's survival insofar as self-defence may demand > > > it. And good philosophy may need to be protected from those who > > > prefer brute force and ignorance over it. > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 8:07 AM, Pat <[email protected] > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > On 28 Oct, 18:05, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > Good thoughts all, Pat, but as noted, idealistic and utopian. > Here's > > > > > where > > > > > > it breaks down: > > > > > > > > 1. The intelligent and socially responsible agree that > disarmament > > > and > > > > > > non-competitive cooperation is the ideal, and take steps to make > this > > > a > > > > > > reality. > > > > > > > > 2. The brutes and anti-socials (chavs, if you will), recognize > this > > > > > > accurately as a weakness, and come take all the possessions, > > > liberties, > > > > > and > > > > > > virginities of the rest of the group. > > > > > > > > Darwin accurately noted the brutality of nature, and it's only > > > idealism > > > > > and > > > > > > rank utopianism that allows us to believe that it could be > anything > > > else. > > > > > > Those who are raised up without the ability to recognize this, > and > > > > > compete > > > > > > accordingly, fail in the inevitable competitions which WILL > occur. > > > I'll > > > > > buy > > > > > > your dream when one day goes by on this planet that a woman is > not > > > raped. > > > > > > > I completely agree that the world will always afford us > > > > > competitions but that they can be won by us all if we combine our > > > > > efforts. I have no problem with ideals or idealism, outside the > fact > > > > > that they aren't striven towards. Possessions are a misnomer, > liberty > > > > > fades in the face of a space-time continuum and viginity MUST fail > if > > > > > we are all to survive to the next generation. The brutes, as you > call > > > > > them, should then, as an act of compassion by the rest of us, be > > > > > removed. No doubt that's why we have no more Neanderthals--perhaps > > > > > the Cro-Magnon were more evolved spiritually and found that they > HAD > > > > > to remove the brutes in order to survive to OUR stage. > > > > > If we want competitions in schools, rather than meaningless > egg-n- > > > > > spoon races, why not have a competition to reforest an area and > reward > > > > > the individual/class/school the excels in planting the most trees? > At > > > > > least there's a tangible and beneficial result from the > competition, > > > > > rather than a meaningless 'sport'. > > > > > I see no benefits to having what amounts to 'circuses' when > there > > > > > are people (homeless and starving) who require bread. At least > Rome > > > > > gave 'bread and circuses'; we only give circuses. How sad is THAT? > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Pat < > [email protected] > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 28 Oct, 14:01, Ian Pollard <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > 2009/10/28 Pat <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > Of course we have schools all wrong. We encourage > children > > > to > > > > > > > > > compete against one another--to score better on tests than > > > their > > > > > > > > > peers, to excel at sports over their their peers and teach > them > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > the only way THEY will do well is if they can continue to > beat > > > > > > > > > everyone else 'out there' in the real world. > > > > > > > > > > Totally wrong, Pat. This is exactly what we don't do any more > in > > > > > schools. > > > > > > > My > > > > > > > > nephew's recent sports day was pathetic. No prizes for the > > > winners > > > > > > > (because > > > > > > > > "everyone was a winner")! What a fucking celebration of > > > mediocrity. > > > > > > > > > Well, you can prove that by, first, adopting my system for a > > > > > > > generation (maybe 2) and seeing if it works better or not. > > > Anything > > > > > > > else is just hot air. 'Sport' doesn't matter as much as > getting > > > along > > > > > > > with one another. And, if you think it does, then, I'm afraid, > > > we'll > > > > > > > have to agree to disagree. Nothing lost in that. But nothing > > > > > > > gained. > > > > > > > > > > Unsurprisingly, the most popular schools -- and the ones with > the > > > > > highest > > > > > > > > level of achievement -- are the ones that are independent, > fee > > > > > paying, > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > encourage competition in all areas. > > > > > > > > > But how many bright, poor, homeless people go there? Straw > man, > > > > > > > I'm afraid. All of us are equally individual. I don't ascribe > to > > > > > > > 'animal farm' ideals. Nor should you. Nor would I have > thought > > > you > > > > > > > would. > > > > > > > > > > We don't live in the kind of utopia you're philosophy > requires, > > > > > sadly; > > > > > > > > Darwinism still reigns. > > > > > > > > > Darwin, I would think, was intelligent enough to realise the > > > value > > > > > > > of cooperation and coordination. If your liver started > competing > > > with > > > > > > > your pancreas, how long do you think you'd last? Our own > bodies > > > give > > > > > > > us the example of the obvious success of organisation, > coordination > > > > > > > and cooperation and Darwin would agree with that. What reigns > > > isn't > > > > > > > Darwinism, what reigns is caveman mentality--the bigger > club/weapon > > > > > > > the better 'fit'. Bollocks. That reduces us to the least > common > > > > > > > denominator rather than our highest ideals. We MUST get out of > > > that > > > > > > > caveman thinking or we WILL be reduced back to that level. > > > > > > > > > > Ian- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
