I have a strong feeling Ian that half my grammar school teechers ...
On 28 Oct, 18:05, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote:
> Good thoughts all, Pat, but as noted, idealistic and utopian. Here's where
> it breaks down:
>
> 1. The intelligent and socially responsible agree that disarmament and
> non-competitive cooperation is the ideal, and take steps to make this a
> reality.
>
> 2. The brutes and anti-socials (chavs, if you will), recognize this
> accurately as a weakness, and come take all the possessions, liberties, and
> virginities of the rest of the group.
>
> Darwin accurately noted the brutality of nature, and it's only idealism and
> rank utopianism that allows us to believe that it could be anything else.
> Those who are raised up without the ability to recognize this, and compete
> accordingly, fail in the inevitable competitions which WILL occur. I'll buy
> your dream when one day goes by on this planet that a woman is not raped.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On 28 Oct, 14:01, Ian Pollard <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > 2009/10/28 Pat <[email protected]>
>
> > > > Of course we have schools all wrong. We encourage children to
> > > > compete against one another--to score better on tests than their
> > > > peers, to excel at sports over their their peers and teach them that
> > > > the only way THEY will do well is if they can continue to beat
> > > > everyone else 'out there' in the real world.
>
> > > Totally wrong, Pat. This is exactly what we don't do any more in schools.
> > My
> > > nephew's recent sports day was pathetic. No prizes for the winners
> > (because
> > > "everyone was a winner")! What a fucking celebration of mediocrity.
>
> > Well, you can prove that by, first, adopting my system for a
> > generation (maybe 2) and seeing if it works better or not. Anything
> > else is just hot air. 'Sport' doesn't matter as much as getting along
> > with one another. And, if you think it does, then, I'm afraid, we'll
> > have to agree to disagree. Nothing lost in that. But nothing
> > gained.
>
> > > Unsurprisingly, the most popular schools -- and the ones with the highest
> > > level of achievement -- are the ones that are independent, fee paying,
> > and
> > > encourage competition in all areas.
>
> > But how many bright, poor, homeless people go there? Straw man,
> > I'm afraid. All of us are equally individual. I don't ascribe to
> > 'animal farm' ideals. Nor should you. Nor would I have thought you
> > would.
>
> > > We don't live in the kind of utopia you're philosophy requires, sadly;
> > > Darwinism still reigns.
>
> > Darwin, I would think, was intelligent enough to realise the value
> > of cooperation and coordination. If your liver started competing with
> > your pancreas, how long do you think you'd last? Our own bodies give
> > us the example of the obvious success of organisation, coordination
> > and cooperation and Darwin would agree with that. What reigns isn't
> > Darwinism, what reigns is caveman mentality--the bigger club/weapon
> > the better 'fit'. Bollocks. That reduces us to the least common
> > denominator rather than our highest ideals. We MUST get out of that
> > caveman thinking or we WILL be reduced back to that level.
>
> > > Ian
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