On 29 Oct, 16:44, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote:
> Correct. However, as I mentioned earlier, the only folks capable of
> protecting from the brutes are the one who have gained proficiency in
> violence through competition, yet are morally obligated to the group seeking
> protection.
>
> You cannot become a fighter by happy thoughts. You must practice fighting.
>
True, but the master of Martial Arts avoids having to use them due
to his advanced philosophy.
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Pat <[email protected]>wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 29 Oct, 13:24, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Ah, so you DO see the need for violence, although couched in softer
> > terms:
>
> > > "The brutes, as you call them, should then, as an act of compassion by
> > the
> > > rest of us, be removed."
>
> > > The very act of removal is competition, at its highest, most brutal form,
> > > and if we had not been trained competitively in the circus, we would not
> > > have the capability to "remove the brutes." Very likely, they would
> > remove
> > > us. Cro-Magnon man was able to survive over Neanderthal man because he
> > ALSO
> > > carried a spear and rocks, and competed to survive.
>
> > Also, probably, a 'good reason' for the commandment to wipe out the
> > Amalekites. Violence, whilst not always necessary, is, of course,
> > sometimes vital to one's survival insofar as self-defence may demand
> > it. And good philosophy may need to be protected from those who
> > prefer brute force and ignorance over it.
>
> > > On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 8:07 AM, Pat <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > > On 28 Oct, 18:05, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > Good thoughts all, Pat, but as noted, idealistic and utopian. Here's
> > > > where
> > > > > it breaks down:
>
> > > > > 1. The intelligent and socially responsible agree that disarmament
> > and
> > > > > non-competitive cooperation is the ideal, and take steps to make this
> > a
> > > > > reality.
>
> > > > > 2. The brutes and anti-socials (chavs, if you will), recognize this
> > > > > accurately as a weakness, and come take all the possessions,
> > liberties,
> > > > and
> > > > > virginities of the rest of the group.
>
> > > > > Darwin accurately noted the brutality of nature, and it's only
> > idealism
> > > > and
> > > > > rank utopianism that allows us to believe that it could be anything
> > else.
> > > > > Those who are raised up without the ability to recognize this, and
> > > > compete
> > > > > accordingly, fail in the inevitable competitions which WILL occur.
> > I'll
> > > > buy
> > > > > your dream when one day goes by on this planet that a woman is not
> > raped.
>
> > > > I completely agree that the world will always afford us
> > > > competitions but that they can be won by us all if we combine our
> > > > efforts. I have no problem with ideals or idealism, outside the fact
> > > > that they aren't striven towards. Possessions are a misnomer, liberty
> > > > fades in the face of a space-time continuum and viginity MUST fail if
> > > > we are all to survive to the next generation. The brutes, as you call
> > > > them, should then, as an act of compassion by the rest of us, be
> > > > removed. No doubt that's why we have no more Neanderthals--perhaps
> > > > the Cro-Magnon were more evolved spiritually and found that they HAD
> > > > to remove the brutes in order to survive to OUR stage.
> > > > If we want competitions in schools, rather than meaningless egg-n-
> > > > spoon races, why not have a competition to reforest an area and reward
> > > > the individual/class/school the excels in planting the most trees? At
> > > > least there's a tangible and beneficial result from the competition,
> > > > rather than a meaningless 'sport'.
> > > > I see no benefits to having what amounts to 'circuses' when there
> > > > are people (homeless and starving) who require bread. At least Rome
> > > > gave 'bread and circuses'; we only give circuses. How sad is THAT?
>
> > > > > On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Pat <[email protected]
>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > > On 28 Oct, 14:01, Ian Pollard <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > > > 2009/10/28 Pat <[email protected]>
>
> > > > > > > > Of course we have schools all wrong. We encourage children
> > to
> > > > > > > > compete against one another--to score better on tests than
> > their
> > > > > > > > peers, to excel at sports over their their peers and teach them
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > the only way THEY will do well is if they can continue to beat
> > > > > > > > everyone else 'out there' in the real world.
>
> > > > > > > Totally wrong, Pat. This is exactly what we don't do any more in
> > > > schools.
> > > > > > My
> > > > > > > nephew's recent sports day was pathetic. No prizes for the
> > winners
> > > > > > (because
> > > > > > > "everyone was a winner")! What a fucking celebration of
> > mediocrity.
>
> > > > > > Well, you can prove that by, first, adopting my system for a
> > > > > > generation (maybe 2) and seeing if it works better or not.
> > Anything
> > > > > > else is just hot air. 'Sport' doesn't matter as much as getting
> > along
> > > > > > with one another. And, if you think it does, then, I'm afraid,
> > we'll
> > > > > > have to agree to disagree. Nothing lost in that. But nothing
> > > > > > gained.
>
> > > > > > > Unsurprisingly, the most popular schools -- and the ones with the
> > > > highest
> > > > > > > level of achievement -- are the ones that are independent, fee
> > > > paying,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > encourage competition in all areas.
>
> > > > > > But how many bright, poor, homeless people go there? Straw man,
> > > > > > I'm afraid. All of us are equally individual. I don't ascribe to
> > > > > > 'animal farm' ideals. Nor should you. Nor would I have thought
> > you
> > > > > > would.
>
> > > > > > > We don't live in the kind of utopia you're philosophy requires,
> > > > sadly;
> > > > > > > Darwinism still reigns.
>
> > > > > > Darwin, I would think, was intelligent enough to realise the
> > value
> > > > > > of cooperation and coordination. If your liver started competing
> > with
> > > > > > your pancreas, how long do you think you'd last? Our own bodies
> > give
> > > > > > us the example of the obvious success of organisation, coordination
> > > > > > and cooperation and Darwin would agree with that. What reigns
> > isn't
> > > > > > Darwinism, what reigns is caveman mentality--the bigger club/weapon
> > > > > > the better 'fit'. Bollocks. That reduces us to the least common
> > > > > > denominator rather than our highest ideals. We MUST get out of
> > that
> > > > > > caveman thinking or we WILL be reduced back to that level.
>
> > > > > > > Ian- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
""Minds Eye"" group.
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
[email protected]
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en
-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
