On 29 Oct, 13:24, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ah, so you DO see the need for violence, although couched in softer terms:
>
> "The brutes, as you call them, should then, as an act of compassion by the
> rest of us, be removed."
>
> The very act of removal is competition, at its highest, most brutal form,
> and if we had not been trained competitively in the circus, we would not
> have the capability to "remove the brutes." Very likely, they would remove
> us. Cro-Magnon man was able to survive over Neanderthal man because he ALSO
> carried a spear and rocks, and competed to survive.
>
Also, probably, a 'good reason' for the commandment to wipe out the
Amalekites. Violence, whilst not always necessary, is, of course,
sometimes vital to one's survival insofar as self-defence may demand
it. And good philosophy may need to be protected from those who
prefer brute force and ignorance over it.
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 8:07 AM, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On 28 Oct, 18:05, Chris Jenkins <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Good thoughts all, Pat, but as noted, idealistic and utopian. Here's
> > where
> > > it breaks down:
>
> > > 1. The intelligent and socially responsible agree that disarmament and
> > > non-competitive cooperation is the ideal, and take steps to make this a
> > > reality.
>
> > > 2. The brutes and anti-socials (chavs, if you will), recognize this
> > > accurately as a weakness, and come take all the possessions, liberties,
> > and
> > > virginities of the rest of the group.
>
> > > Darwin accurately noted the brutality of nature, and it's only idealism
> > and
> > > rank utopianism that allows us to believe that it could be anything else.
> > > Those who are raised up without the ability to recognize this, and
> > compete
> > > accordingly, fail in the inevitable competitions which WILL occur. I'll
> > buy
> > > your dream when one day goes by on this planet that a woman is not raped.
>
> > I completely agree that the world will always afford us
> > competitions but that they can be won by us all if we combine our
> > efforts. I have no problem with ideals or idealism, outside the fact
> > that they aren't striven towards. Possessions are a misnomer, liberty
> > fades in the face of a space-time continuum and viginity MUST fail if
> > we are all to survive to the next generation. The brutes, as you call
> > them, should then, as an act of compassion by the rest of us, be
> > removed. No doubt that's why we have no more Neanderthals--perhaps
> > the Cro-Magnon were more evolved spiritually and found that they HAD
> > to remove the brutes in order to survive to OUR stage.
> > If we want competitions in schools, rather than meaningless egg-n-
> > spoon races, why not have a competition to reforest an area and reward
> > the individual/class/school the excels in planting the most trees? At
> > least there's a tangible and beneficial result from the competition,
> > rather than a meaningless 'sport'.
> > I see no benefits to having what amounts to 'circuses' when there
> > are people (homeless and starving) who require bread. At least Rome
> > gave 'bread and circuses'; we only give circuses. How sad is THAT?
>
> > > On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Pat <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > > On 28 Oct, 14:01, Ian Pollard <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > 2009/10/28 Pat <[email protected]>
>
> > > > > > Of course we have schools all wrong. We encourage children to
> > > > > > compete against one another--to score better on tests than their
> > > > > > peers, to excel at sports over their their peers and teach them
> > that
> > > > > > the only way THEY will do well is if they can continue to beat
> > > > > > everyone else 'out there' in the real world.
>
> > > > > Totally wrong, Pat. This is exactly what we don't do any more in
> > schools.
> > > > My
> > > > > nephew's recent sports day was pathetic. No prizes for the winners
> > > > (because
> > > > > "everyone was a winner")! What a fucking celebration of mediocrity.
>
> > > > Well, you can prove that by, first, adopting my system for a
> > > > generation (maybe 2) and seeing if it works better or not. Anything
> > > > else is just hot air. 'Sport' doesn't matter as much as getting along
> > > > with one another. And, if you think it does, then, I'm afraid, we'll
> > > > have to agree to disagree. Nothing lost in that. But nothing
> > > > gained.
>
> > > > > Unsurprisingly, the most popular schools -- and the ones with the
> > highest
> > > > > level of achievement -- are the ones that are independent, fee
> > paying,
> > > > and
> > > > > encourage competition in all areas.
>
> > > > But how many bright, poor, homeless people go there? Straw man,
> > > > I'm afraid. All of us are equally individual. I don't ascribe to
> > > > 'animal farm' ideals. Nor should you. Nor would I have thought you
> > > > would.
>
> > > > > We don't live in the kind of utopia you're philosophy requires,
> > sadly;
> > > > > Darwinism still reigns.
>
> > > > Darwin, I would think, was intelligent enough to realise the value
> > > > of cooperation and coordination. If your liver started competing with
> > > > your pancreas, how long do you think you'd last? Our own bodies give
> > > > us the example of the obvious success of organisation, coordination
> > > > and cooperation and Darwin would agree with that. What reigns isn't
> > > > Darwinism, what reigns is caveman mentality--the bigger club/weapon
> > > > the better 'fit'. Bollocks. That reduces us to the least common
> > > > denominator rather than our highest ideals. We MUST get out of that
> > > > caveman thinking or we WILL be reduced back to that level.
>
> > > > > Ian- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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