On 15 Dec, 16:59, Lee <[email protected]> wrote:
> There may be some truth in what you say Pat. I figure though each
> persons perception would be differant. Would I like to find out after
> the death of my father that he was a peopdphile?(for example) Nope I
> would rather just never know.
>
But what makes you think you wouldn't 'find out' in the hereafter?
Forewarned is forearmed (with respect to knowledge, in this case).
Nowadays, though, a man can't even say "I love kids" without
someone thinking the worst. It makes me wonder how many prospective
male teachers have to avoid saying such a phrase simply because of the
'state of fear' that exists. The term, paedophile, is a poor term
anyway, as 'philo-' means 'friendly love' not erotic love; that's what
'ero-' was for. In truth, the term is inaccurate, as few (there'll
always be SOME) people actually have a problem with people who are
friendly with children.
> On 15 Dec, 16:50, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 15 Dec, 15:01, Lee <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Heheh are you sure? What if you learn for instance of the crimes of
> > > your father, or the sexual desire your partner has for your best
> > > freind?
>
> > Then you must 'learn' to deal with it. The former, I think, would be
> > more difficult than the latter, as, in the latter case, the truth can
> > set you free. Knowing the truth, however 'bad' we may deem it to be,
> > is a far better ground from which to move forward than an unknown or,
> > worse, a lie.
>
> > Yesterday, I got a phone call from my middle son who was telling me of
> > how he and some other boys were picking on a classmate when his Muslim
> > friend realised that what they (including himself) were doing was
> > wrong and informed the teacher, who gave all but the Muslim boy a
> > 'ticking off'. I asked my son if HE would appreciate being picked on;
> > to which he replied, "No." So I told him, then, what the boy did was
> > correct (by admitting to picking on the boy) and he realised that his
> > actions were wrong and took the chance to put it right. My son
> > eventually agreed that, whilst it may have seemed 'disloyal' to turn
> > in a friend to the teacher, the young Muslim boy WAS actually acting
> > in everyone's best interest and my son was far happier about the
> > situation after our brief chat.
>
> > I just thought I'd pass that on as a little tidbit to show that Muslim
> > values, while seeming to cross certain Western barriers (like
> > 'grassing up' a mate for petty bullying), are, in fact, more morally
> > sound and even an 8 year-old can grasp that, when it's pointed out.
> > The last thing I wanted my son to do was to become 'nervous' of
> > Muslims who, for that vast majority, are actually genuinely good,
> > morally upstanding people.
>
> > > On 15 Dec, 14:28, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > The experience of learning is always beneficial.
>
> > > > On Dec 15, 3:57 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > My life has become more peaceful now that my son has decided to
> > > > > observe and try to copy the behaviour of his classmate, who is a
> > > > > Jehovah's Witness. He is impressed how he manages to never get
> > > > > involved into anything that really matters and therefore never gets
> > > > > excited over anything. That helps me to learn my lesson, too.
>
> > > > > On Dec 15, 12:14 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Well thanks for the variations in view and the enlightenment on the
> > > > > > situation as a whole, makes the most sense so far. It doesn't
> > > > > > change
> > > > > > much for me though, I'm still concerned. The water supply and food
> > > > > > supply could easily be sabotaged by some radical, of course I'm not
> > > > > > implying just that particular strain, it could be any nut job to
> > > > > > pull
> > > > > > that one off, like the shoe bomber, Richard Reid aka Abdul Raheem,
> > > > > > currently serving a life sentence. He converted to Islam in one of
> > > > > > his
> > > > > > earlier prison stints. I've said it before in other threads, I
> > > > > > think
> > > > > > the world would be a better place without religion, its segmentation
> > > > > > of societies and a root cause of indifference. My life is so much
> > > > > > more peaceful without it and this concern I have is really rooted in
> > > > > > religious ideology. I find it as annoying and irritating as the
> > > > > > Jehovah Witness knocking on my door on a Saturday morning. Shalom!
>
> > > > > > On Dec 14, 6:57 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On 11 Dec, 18:11, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > You make is sound so relaxing, Pat. I have to add that I do
> > > > > > > > not know
> > > > > > > > any Muslims and have never met any Muslims which may be one of
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > reasons for my apprehensions. However, it is not without any
> > > > > > > > basis,
> > > > > > > > ie; the Muslim Major Hasan seemed by "ALL" accounts to be one
> > > > > > > > of the
> > > > > > > > peace loving Muslim persons of whom you speak. Didn't people
> > > > > > > > know him
> > > > > > > > as such, wasn't he in the US Army? Didn't he shoot and kill US
> > > > > > > > Soldiers? Was he a fundamentalist, a radical terrorist?
> > > > > > > > Are we being duped is the real question, are you?
>
> > > > > > > Although I don't know Major Hasan, I can 'guess' (which is hardly
> > > > > > > good) that there were conflicts of interest going on in his mind.
> > > > > > > Muslims consider one another brothers--at least brothers in the
> > > > > > > faith. Yet the army is sending U.S. Muslims to kill non-U.S.
> > > > > > > Muslims. This is as much 'brother vs. brother' as we saw in the
> > > > > > > US
> > > > > > > Civil War, when members of the same family fought on opposing
> > > > > > > sides.
> > > > > > > It destroyed families for generations. In this case, it's caused
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > conflict of interest in the minds of Muslims who have a duty to
> > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > Muslim brothers AND a duty to their country. Not all people
> > > > > > > resolve
> > > > > > > the issue in the same way and some, like Major Hasan I assume,
> > > > > > > crack
> > > > > > > under the pressure. Remember Hasan's last words before the
> > > > > > > rampage?
> > > > > > > "Allahu Akhbar", i.e. "God is greater"; i.e., his loyalty to Islam
> > > > > > > took over, although he was so far gone mentally that, while he may
> > > > > > > have got his allegiances correct, his actions were completely
> > > > > > > opposed
> > > > > > > to the guidance given BY Islam. At that point, it seems he felt
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > was better (and I disagree with him completely, BTW) to fight
> > > > > > > those
> > > > > > > who were killing his Muslim brothers than to join with them and
> > > > > > > kill
> > > > > > > his brother Muslims (and/or support the cause that kills his
> > > > > > > brother
> > > > > > > Muslims). So he indiscriminately started shooting. An act that
> > > > > > > would
> > > > > > > be considered reprehensible and punishable by death under Shari'a
> > > > > > > law,
> > > > > > > as what he did was plain murder, i.e., needless killing. What
> > > > > > > Hasan
> > > > > > > was was someone who cracked under the pressure. He failed the
> > > > > > > test.
> > > > > > > To pass, he should have resigned his commission from the Army,
> > > > > > > under
> > > > > > > ANY circumstances, and just gone back to civilian life. But it's
> > > > > > > obvious, from his actions, that he wasn't thinking straight.
> > > > > > > As far as his general motivations, again, I don't know the man.
> > > > > > > I can
> > > > > > > reckon, though, from his actions that his loyalty to his Muslim
> > > > > > > brothers outweighed his loyalty to the U.S. Army at the time of
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > murders. Personally, I think he was on the verge of the cracking
> > > > > > > point for months but something tipped him over the edge. Exactly
> > > > > > > what, I have no idea.
> > > > > > > Was he a terrorist, probably not, in the sense of an Al-Qaida
> > > > > > > operative, while what he did certainly instilled terror. Was he a
> > > > > > > fundamentalist, probably not, in the sense of the late Ayatollah
> > > > > > > Khomeini or Osama Bin Laden, but held the fundamental belief that
> > > > > > > he
> > > > > > > should not support, in any way, the indiscriminate slaughter of
> > > > > > > innocent Muslims, which is a daily occurrence in the battlefields
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > Afghanistan and Iraq. Did he shoot and kill U.S. soldiers? Yes.
> > > > > > > And
> > > > > > > he was wrong by U.S. AND Islamic standards for doing so. He just
> > > > > > > cracked and went postal, as it were. Does this action of his
> > > > > > > reflect
> > > > > > > on anyone else? No, in no way, shape or form! We are all
> > > > > > > accountable
> > > > > > > for ourselves. Should his actions make you nervous of other
> > > > > > > Muslims?
> > > > > > > I don't think so. What needs to be looked at, though, is the
> > > > > > > 'reasoning' behind the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and, if they
> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > not valid (and we all know they're not), then stop the fighting
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > prevent U.S. Muslims from having to support a war against their
> > > > > > > brothers-in-faith. Imagine how many Jews would relish fighting a
> > > > > > > war
> > > > > > > against Israel, or Irish-Americans fighting a war against Ireland?
> > > > > > > But those wars aren't the ones we're presented with at the moment;
> > > > > > > rather, the current wars put the spotlight on Muslims.
> > > > > > > What we should be nervous about is entering into wars that,
> > > > > > > invariably, pit men against men, and THAT will always bring out
> > > > > > > sub-
> > > > > > > loyalties. There were plenty of Irish-Americans that lent
> > > > > > > support in
> > > > > > > some fashion to either NI or the IRA. But do we castigate all
> > > > > > > Irish-
> > > > > > > Americans because of it? Ahh, but they were all Christians. In
> > > > > > > truth, there were IRA supporters that would tell you that the
> > > > > > > Protestants were NOT Christians and the Protestants would tell you
> > > > > > > that the Catholics in the south weren't Christian. So Christians
> > > > > > > were
> > > > > > > fighting Christians, but they didn't recognise each other's
> > > > > > > Christianity. In the case of Iraq and Afghanistan, though, there
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > no mistake about it, the U.S. Army is forcing U.S. Muslims to
> > > > > > > either
> > > > > > > directly kill or support the killing of other Muslims, about whom
> > > > > > > there is NO doubt regarding their faith. This will cause
> > > > > > > problems--it
> > > > > > > has and it will continue to do so. It's a complex problem with a
> > > > > > > simple answer...stop fighting stupid wars and people won't have
> > > > > > > THAT
> > > > > > > reason to get so distraught. But, as we all know, oil is more
> > > > > > > important than a few (hundred...thousand...million) people. And,
> > > > > > > yes,
> > > > > > > that previous sentence is seriously
>
> ...
>
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