I'm not sure that looking away from what comes into your experience is ever the answer. What does not come into your experience - not sure what that would be. If you imagine it, it is part of your experience, even as fantasy. When we look away, what we look away from just keeps coming back until we are willing to recognize, fully own, and move into greater possibility. The same with what we stongly fear. We just get more of it until we can bring ourselves to reconcile.
On Dec 15, 11:59 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > There may be some truth in what you say Pat. I figure though each > persons perception would be differant. Would I like to find out after > the death of my father that he was a peopdphile?(for example) Nope I > would rather just never know. > > On 15 Dec, 16:50, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On 15 Dec, 15:01, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Heheh are you sure? What if you learn for instance of the crimes of > > > your father, or the sexual desire your partner has for your best > > > freind? > > > Then you must 'learn' to deal with it. The former, I think, would be > > more difficult than the latter, as, in the latter case, the truth can > > set you free. Knowing the truth, however 'bad' we may deem it to be, > > is a far better ground from which to move forward than an unknown or, > > worse, a lie. > > > Yesterday, I got a phone call from my middle son who was telling me of > > how he and some other boys were picking on a classmate when his Muslim > > friend realised that what they (including himself) were doing was > > wrong and informed the teacher, who gave all but the Muslim boy a > > 'ticking off'. I asked my son if HE would appreciate being picked on; > > to which he replied, "No." So I told him, then, what the boy did was > > correct (by admitting to picking on the boy) and he realised that his > > actions were wrong and took the chance to put it right. My son > > eventually agreed that, whilst it may have seemed 'disloyal' to turn > > in a friend to the teacher, the young Muslim boy WAS actually acting > > in everyone's best interest and my son was far happier about the > > situation after our brief chat. > > > I just thought I'd pass that on as a little tidbit to show that Muslim > > values, while seeming to cross certain Western barriers (like > > 'grassing up' a mate for petty bullying), are, in fact, more morally > > sound and even an 8 year-old can grasp that, when it's pointed out. > > The last thing I wanted my son to do was to become 'nervous' of > > Muslims who, for that vast majority, are actually genuinely good, > > morally upstanding people. > > > > On 15 Dec, 14:28, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > The experience of learning is always beneficial. > > > > > On Dec 15, 3:57 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > My life has become more peaceful now that my son has decided to > > > > > observe and try to copy the behaviour of his classmate, who is a > > > > > Jehovah's Witness. He is impressed how he manages to never get > > > > > involved into anything that really matters and therefore never gets > > > > > excited over anything. That helps me to learn my lesson, too. > > > > > > On Dec 15, 12:14 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > Well thanks for the variations in view and the enlightenment on the > > > > > > situation as a whole, makes the most sense so far. It doesn't > > > > > > change > > > > > > much for me though, I'm still concerned. The water supply and food > > > > > > supply could easily be sabotaged by some radical, of course I'm not > > > > > > implying just that particular strain, it could be any nut job to > > > > > > pull > > > > > > that one off, like the shoe bomber, Richard Reid aka Abdul Raheem, > > > > > > currently serving a life sentence. He converted to Islam in one of > > > > > > his > > > > > > earlier prison stints. I've said it before in other threads, I > > > > > > think > > > > > > the world would be a better place without religion, its segmentation > > > > > > of societies and a root cause of indifference. My life is so much > > > > > > more peaceful without it and this concern I have is really rooted in > > > > > > religious ideology. I find it as annoying and irritating as the > > > > > > Jehovah Witness knocking on my door on a Saturday morning. Shalom! > > > > > > > On Dec 14, 6:57 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > On 11 Dec, 18:11, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > You make is sound so relaxing, Pat. I have to add that I do > > > > > > > > not know > > > > > > > > any Muslims and have never met any Muslims which may be one of > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > reasons for my apprehensions. However, it is not without any > > > > > > > > basis, > > > > > > > > ie; the Muslim Major Hasan seemed by "ALL" accounts to be one > > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > peace loving Muslim persons of whom you speak. Didn't people > > > > > > > > know him > > > > > > > > as such, wasn't he in the US Army? Didn't he shoot and kill US > > > > > > > > Soldiers? Was he a fundamentalist, a radical terrorist? > > > > > > > > Are we being duped is the real question, are you? > > > > > > > > Although I don't know Major Hasan, I can 'guess' (which is hardly > > > > > > > good) that there were conflicts of interest going on in his mind. > > > > > > > Muslims consider one another brothers--at least brothers in the > > > > > > > faith. Yet the army is sending U.S. Muslims to kill non-U.S. > > > > > > > Muslims. This is as much 'brother vs. brother' as we saw in the > > > > > > > US > > > > > > > Civil War, when members of the same family fought on opposing > > > > > > > sides. > > > > > > > It destroyed families for generations. In this case, it's caused > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > conflict of interest in the minds of Muslims who have a duty to > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > Muslim brothers AND a duty to their country. Not all people > > > > > > > resolve > > > > > > > the issue in the same way and some, like Major Hasan I assume, > > > > > > > crack > > > > > > > under the pressure. Remember Hasan's last words before the > > > > > > > rampage? > > > > > > > "Allahu Akhbar", i.e. "God is greater"; i.e., his loyalty to Islam > > > > > > > took over, although he was so far gone mentally that, while he may > > > > > > > have got his allegiances correct, his actions were completely > > > > > > > opposed > > > > > > > to the guidance given BY Islam. At that point, it seems he felt > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > was better (and I disagree with him completely, BTW) to fight > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > who were killing his Muslim brothers than to join with them and > > > > > > > kill > > > > > > > his brother Muslims (and/or support the cause that kills his > > > > > > > brother > > > > > > > Muslims). So he indiscriminately started shooting. An act that > > > > > > > would > > > > > > > be considered reprehensible and punishable by death under Shari'a > > > > > > > law, > > > > > > > as what he did was plain murder, i.e., needless killing. What > > > > > > > Hasan > > > > > > > was was someone who cracked under the pressure. He failed the > > > > > > > test. > > > > > > > To pass, he should have resigned his commission from the Army, > > > > > > > under > > > > > > > ANY circumstances, and just gone back to civilian life. But it's > > > > > > > obvious, from his actions, that he wasn't thinking straight. > > > > > > > As far as his general motivations, again, I don't know the man. > > > > > > > I can > > > > > > > reckon, though, from his actions that his loyalty to his Muslim > > > > > > > brothers outweighed his loyalty to the U.S. Army at the time of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > murders. Personally, I think he was on the verge of the cracking > > > > > > > point for months but something tipped him over the edge. Exactly > > > > > > > what, I have no idea. > > > > > > > Was he a terrorist, probably not, in the sense of an Al-Qaida > > > > > > > operative, while what he did certainly instilled terror. Was he a > > > > > > > fundamentalist, probably not, in the sense of the late Ayatollah > > > > > > > Khomeini or Osama Bin Laden, but held the fundamental belief that > > > > > > > he > > > > > > > should not support, in any way, the indiscriminate slaughter of > > > > > > > innocent Muslims, which is a daily occurrence in the battlefields > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > Afghanistan and Iraq. Did he shoot and kill U.S. soldiers? Yes. > > > > > > > And > > > > > > > he was wrong by U.S. AND Islamic standards for doing so. He just > > > > > > > cracked and went postal, as it were. Does this action of his > > > > > > > reflect > > > > > > > on anyone else? No, in no way, shape or form! We are all > > > > > > > accountable > > > > > > > for ourselves. Should his actions make you nervous of other > > > > > > > Muslims? > > > > > > > I don't think so. What needs to be looked at, though, is the > > > > > > > 'reasoning' behind the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and, if they > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > not valid (and we all know they're not), then stop the fighting > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > prevent U.S. Muslims from having to support a war against their > > > > > > > brothers-in-faith. Imagine how many Jews would relish fighting a > > > > > > > war > > > > > > > against Israel, or Irish-Americans fighting a war against Ireland? > > > > > > > But those wars aren't the ones we're presented with at the moment; > > > > > > > rather, the current wars put the spotlight on Muslims. > > > > > > > What we should be nervous about is entering into wars that, > > > > > > > invariably, pit men against men, and THAT will always bring out > > > > > > > sub- > > > > > > > loyalties. There were plenty of Irish-Americans that lent > > > > > > > support in > > > > > > > some fashion to either NI or the IRA. But do we castigate all > > > > > > > Irish- > > > > > > > Americans because of it? Ahh, but they were all Christians. In > > > > > > > truth, there were IRA supporters that would tell you that the > > > > > > > Protestants were NOT Christians and the Protestants would tell you > > > > > > > that the Catholics in the south weren't Christian. So Christians > > > > > > > were > > > > > > > fighting Christians, but they didn't recognise each other's > > > > > > > Christianity. In the case of Iraq and Afghanistan, though, there > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > no mistake about it, the U.S. Army is forcing U.S. Muslims to > > > > > > > either > > > > > > > directly kill or support the killing of other Muslims, about whom > > > > > > > there is NO doubt regarding their faith. This will cause > > > > > > > problems--it > > > > > > > has and it will continue to do so. It's a complex problem with a > > > > > > > simple answer...stop fighting stupid wars and people won't have > > > > > > > THAT > > > > > > > reason to get so distraught. But, as we all know, oil is more > > > > > > > important than a few (hundred...thousand...million) people. And, > > > > > > > yes, > > > > > > > that previous sentence is seriously > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
