Oddly enough, it is not Lee that I read as having undergone a long and serious looking away training. I find his each-person-a-different- perception approach a very straight forward looking approach compared to the duty of your forever re-cognizing and re-conciling.
On 15 Dez., 18:54, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > I'm not sure that looking away from what comes into your experience is > ever the answer. What does not come into your experience - not sure > what that would be. If you imagine it, it is part of your experience, > even as fantasy. When we look away, what we look away from just keeps > coming back until we are willing to recognize, fully own, and move > into greater possibility. The same with what we stongly fear. We > just get more of it until we can bring ourselves to reconcile. > > On Dec 15, 11:59 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > There may be some truth in what you say Pat. I figure though each > > persons perception would be differant. Would I like to find out after > > the death of my father that he was a peopdphile?(for example) Nope I > > would rather just never know. > > > On 15 Dec, 16:50, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 15 Dec, 15:01, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Heheh are you sure? What if you learn for instance of the crimes of > > > > your father, or the sexual desire your partner has for your best > > > > freind? > > > > Then you must 'learn' to deal with it. The former, I think, would be > > > more difficult than the latter, as, in the latter case, the truth can > > > set you free. Knowing the truth, however 'bad' we may deem it to be, > > > is a far better ground from which to move forward than an unknown or, > > > worse, a lie. > > > > Yesterday, I got a phone call from my middle son who was telling me of > > > how he and some other boys were picking on a classmate when his Muslim > > > friend realised that what they (including himself) were doing was > > > wrong and informed the teacher, who gave all but the Muslim boy a > > > 'ticking off'. I asked my son if HE would appreciate being picked on; > > > to which he replied, "No." So I told him, then, what the boy did was > > > correct (by admitting to picking on the boy) and he realised that his > > > actions were wrong and took the chance to put it right. My son > > > eventually agreed that, whilst it may have seemed 'disloyal' to turn > > > in a friend to the teacher, the young Muslim boy WAS actually acting > > > in everyone's best interest and my son was far happier about the > > > situation after our brief chat. > > > > I just thought I'd pass that on as a little tidbit to show that Muslim > > > values, while seeming to cross certain Western barriers (like > > > 'grassing up' a mate for petty bullying), are, in fact, more morally > > > sound and even an 8 year-old can grasp that, when it's pointed out. > > > The last thing I wanted my son to do was to become 'nervous' of > > > Muslims who, for that vast majority, are actually genuinely good, > > > morally upstanding people. > > > > > On 15 Dec, 14:28, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > The experience of learning is always beneficial. > > > > > > On Dec 15, 3:57 am, gabbydott <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > My life has become more peaceful now that my son has decided to > > > > > > observe and try to copy the behaviour of his classmate, who is a > > > > > > Jehovah's Witness. He is impressed how he manages to never get > > > > > > involved into anything that really matters and therefore never gets > > > > > > excited over anything. That helps me to learn my lesson, too. > > > > > > > On Dec 15, 12:14 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Well thanks for the variations in view and the enlightenment on > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > situation as a whole, makes the most sense so far. It doesn't > > > > > > > change > > > > > > > much for me though, I'm still concerned. The water supply and > > > > > > > food > > > > > > > supply could easily be sabotaged by some radical, of course I'm > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > implying just that particular strain, it could be any nut job to > > > > > > > pull > > > > > > > that one off, like the shoe bomber, Richard Reid aka Abdul Raheem, > > > > > > > currently serving a life sentence. He converted to Islam in one > > > > > > > of his > > > > > > > earlier prison stints. I've said it before in other threads, I > > > > > > > think > > > > > > > the world would be a better place without religion, its > > > > > > > segmentation > > > > > > > of societies and a root cause of indifference. My life is so much > > > > > > > more peaceful without it and this concern I have is really rooted > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > religious ideology. I find it as annoying and irritating as the > > > > > > > Jehovah Witness knocking on my door on a Saturday morning. > > > > > > > Shalom! > > > > > > > > On Dec 14, 6:57 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 11 Dec, 18:11, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > You make is sound so relaxing, Pat. I have to add that I do > > > > > > > > > not know > > > > > > > > > any Muslims and have never met any Muslims which may be one > > > > > > > > > of the > > > > > > > > > reasons for my apprehensions. However, it is not without any > > > > > > > > > basis, > > > > > > > > > ie; the Muslim Major Hasan seemed by "ALL" accounts to be > > > > > > > > > one of the > > > > > > > > > peace loving Muslim persons of whom you speak. Didn't people > > > > > > > > > know him > > > > > > > > > as such, wasn't he in the US Army? Didn't he shoot and kill > > > > > > > > > US > > > > > > > > > Soldiers? Was he a fundamentalist, a radical terrorist? > > > > > > > > > Are we being duped is the real question, are you? > > > > > > > > > Although I don't know Major Hasan, I can 'guess' (which is > > > > > > > > hardly > > > > > > > > good) that there were conflicts of interest going on in his > > > > > > > > mind. > > > > > > > > Muslims consider one another brothers--at least brothers in the > > > > > > > > faith. Yet the army is sending U.S. Muslims to kill non-U.S. > > > > > > > > Muslims. This is as much 'brother vs. brother' as we saw in > > > > > > > > the US > > > > > > > > Civil War, when members of the same family fought on opposing > > > > > > > > sides. > > > > > > > > It destroyed families for generations. In this case, it's > > > > > > > > caused a > > > > > > > > conflict of interest in the minds of Muslims who have a duty to > > > > > > > > their > > > > > > > > Muslim brothers AND a duty to their country. Not all people > > > > > > > > resolve > > > > > > > > the issue in the same way and some, like Major Hasan I assume, > > > > > > > > crack > > > > > > > > under the pressure. Remember Hasan's last words before the > > > > > > > > rampage? > > > > > > > > "Allahu Akhbar", i.e. "God is greater"; i.e., hi loyaltty to Islam > > > > > > > > took over, although hewas soofar goone mentally that, while he > > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > > have got his allegiances correct, his actions were completely > > > > > > > > opposed > > > > > > > > to the guidance given BY Islam. At that point, it seems he > > > > > > > > felt it > > > > > > > > was better (and I disagree with him completely, BTW) to fight > > > > > > > > those > > > > > > > > who were killing his Muslim brothers than to join with them and > > > > > > > > kill > > > > > > > > his brother Muslims (and/or support the cause that kills his > > > > > > > > brother > > > > > > > > Muslims). So he indiscriminately started shooting. An act > > > > > > > > that would > > > > > > > > be considered reprehensible and punishable by death under > > > > > > > > Shari'a law, > > > > > > > > as what he did was plain murder, i.e., needless killing. What > > > > > > > > Hasan > > > > > > > > was was someone who cracked under the pressure. He failed the > > > > > > > > test. > > > > > > > > To pas, he should have resigned his commission from the Army, > > > > > > > > under > > > > > > > > ANY circumstances, and just gone back to civilian life. But > > > > > > > > it's > > > > > > > > obvious, from his actions, that he wasn't thinking straight. > > > > > > > > As far as his general motivations, again, I don't know the man. > > > > > > > > I can > > > > > > > > reckon, though, from his actions that his loyalty to his Muslim > > > > > > > > brothers outweighed his loyalty to the U.S. Army at the time of > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > murders. Personally, I think he was on the verge of the > > > > > > > > cracking > > > > > > > > point for months but something tipped him over the edge. > > > > > > > > Exactly > > > > > > > > what, I have no idea. > > > > > > > > Was he a terrorist, probably not, in the sense of an Al-Qaida > > > > > > > > operative, while what he did certainly instilled terror. Was > > > > > > > > he a > > > > > > > > fundamentalist, proably not, in the sense of the late Ayatollah > > > > > > > > Khomeini or Osama Bin Laden, but held the fundamental belief > > > > > > > > that he > > > > > > > > should not support, in any way, the indiscriminate slaghterr of > > > > > > > > innocent Muslims, which is a daily occurrence in the > > > > > > > > battlefields of > > > > > > > > Afghanistan and Iraq. Did he shoot and kill U.S. soldiers? > > > > > > > > Yes. And > > > > > > > > he was wrong by U.S. AND Islamic standards for doing so. He > > > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > cracked and went postal, as it were. Does this action of his > > > > > > > > reflect > > > > > > > > on anyone else? No, in no way, shape or form! We are all > > > > > > > > accountable > > > > > > > > for ourselves. Should his actions make you nervous of other > > > > > > > > Muslims? > > > > > > > > I don't think so. What needs to be looked at, though, is the > > > > > > > > 'reasoning' behind the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and, if > > > > > > > > they are > > > > > > > > not valid (and we all know they're not), then stop the fighting > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > prevent U.S. Muslims from having to support a war against their > > > > > > > > brothers-in-faith. Imagine how many Jews would relish fighting > > > > > > > > a war > > > > > > > > against Israel, or Irish-Americans fighting a war against > > > > > > > > Ireland? > > > > > > > > But those wars aren't the ones we're presented with at the > > > > > > > > moment; > > > > > > > > rather, the current wars put the spotlight on Muslims. > > > > > > > > What we should be nervous about is entering into wars that, > > > > > > > > invariably, pit men against men, and THAT will always bring out > > > > > > > > sub- > > > > > > > > loyalties. There were plenty of Irish-Americans that lent > > > > > > > > support in > > > > > > > > some fashion to either NI or the IRA. But do we castigate all > > > > > > > > Irish- > > > > > > > > Americans because of it? Ahh, but they were all Christians. In > > > > > > > > truth, there were IRA supporters that would tell you that the > > > > > > > > Protestants wee NNOT Christians and the Protestants would tell > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > that the Catholics in the south weren't Christian. > > ... > > Erfahren Sie mehr » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
