Heh heh Alan only ten post in for the first 'real' answer to my query, my thanks.
I find myself disagreeing with you, and here is why: Obstenisbly you talk of knowedge here, and it is true that once you gain knowledge in any sphere you are likely to have a change in your views. Is such change real choice though? I do have not performed the experiments to determine our orbit around our sun, and like you I belive that we do. However now I have this knowledge, garnered by those who have come before me, I find that try as I might I cannot bring myself to 'belive' that the sun revolves around the earth. I have an inkling our Pat has much to say about this and causeality, and in this instance I find that I may well agree with him. Now now Pat don't get over excited dear. On 18 Jan, 23:53, Alan Wostenberg <[email protected]> wrote: > "do we really choose to have faith in God's existence", you wonder. > You suspect not. > > One could choose to believe God exists, just as one could choose to > believe the earth orbits the sun. Billions have done both. Speaking > for myself, I do not know the earth orbits the sun, because I have not > taken the time to conduct the necessary experiments. I have no doubt > it does because I trust that the scientists have done their work well. > But for myself it is not properly called "knowledge" that the earth > moves. Rather, I have chosen to trust the scientists on this point. > > Now one could do the same thing with God: believe God is, on the trust > in other credible people. And that is good enough for children. But it > is really only the faith of parents and teachers alive in the > children. > > But eventually one grows up, works through the proofs of God, and that > knowledge is perfected. That God exists exists is /not/ an article of > faith for those who can follow the proofs, just as "the earth orbits > the sun" is /not/ an article of faith for those who have conducted the > relevant experiments. Faced with a truth that can be known by reason > or faith, a person has an option to convert it from an article of > faith to a conclusion of reason. > > Even so, there is a world of difference between "I believe X" and "I > believe in X". The man for whom God's existence is not an article of > faith but a conclusion of reason, has only begun. He knows God is > (because he followed the proofs), and he knows it with the certainty > he knows two is a prime number, and with far greater certainty than > the scientist knows earth orbits the sun (which is, after all, an > empirical conclusion, and subject to correction by future facts). He > knows God is. But does he believe in God? > > On Jan 18, 9:32 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > So I have been away for a week(damn me am the only IT bod in the world > > without Internet access at home,this is NOT the question) and when I > > come back i see all sorts of rows and arguments and I guess what can > > only be described as 'bad bood' > > > Those of you who know me well enough by now know that one of my things > > is the concept of 'free will' and it is something along these lines > > that I want to ask you about. > > > Choice of belifes. I was asked elswhere a while back on some Sikh > > forum or other why I choose to belive that the entity we know as God > > exists. After thinking about it for a while I realised that I > > couldn't really answer this question in any way other then: > > > 'Good question Agnostic Ji. > > > Do we really choose to have faith in God's existance though? Can we > > literaly choose what we wish to belive or not? > > Lets try it, please try to choose to belive that God exists and let us > > know what happens. > > I suspect that I can no more choose not to belive in God than I have > > chossen the opposite.' > > > Am I right? Rather like one's sexual preferance, is it true that one > > can choose to belive in God or not? > > > Ian I'm look at you my friend.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text -
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