I have become very tired of people who purport to tell us what "God's will" is, Vam. Particularly on the basis of picking and choosing particular verses from "holy books." We could do the same thing with the collected works of Bob Dylan or Frank Zappa (it might even bring better insights!). I often wish that many adherents of one God or another would apply the humility they claim their God teaches to themselves and their proclamations of his/her will.
Francis On 21 Jan., 14:47, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > " The Kafir refuses to accept that the will of Allah rules. Iman is > a realisation that the will of Allah is what governs all." > > I can't write this without calling for Fran's attention. The Question > to you, Pat : But what is the will of Allah ? Is it history, as we > know ? ... as we understand on our own ? ... as we learn in scientific > theories and models ? ... as we feel ? ... as in folk lore ? ... as in > myths ? ... as in ideas advanced by other individuals, good, bad, > ugly, saintly, religious, knowledgeable , prophet like ? ... > > WHAT is the will of Allah ? WHO knows ? WHY should I believe it, > since my own ( good ) sense says otherwise ? All this, especially > since you agree that NOT ONE of us here have an access to future ! > Even Jesus is reported to have observed : Not I. Only my Father knows. > > On Jan 21, 5:40 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On 20 Jan, 19:19, Ian Pollard <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > 2010/1/20 Pat <[email protected]> > > > > > Not in the Qur'an it's not. > > > > Pat, > > > > In the Qu'ran, Eeman and Kufr are a matter of free will for humanity. > > > Rather they are a matter of realisation. The Kafir refuses to accept > > that the will of Allah rules. Iman is a realisation that the will of > > Allah is what governs all. Realisations 'occur' to people, you don't > > choose them. Have you never had a thought 'occur' to you? If you > > have, what choice did you have IN that occurrance? Try looking into > > Qadar/Qadr, i.e., kismet. In the Qur'an, it is clearly stated that > > Allah is the Creator of all things. Do you not think that includes > > your 'supposed' will? > > > >On > > > that principle, I believe almost all denominations of Muslims *do* agree > > > (and I can think of nothing more important, personally). I can only assume > > > you're aligning yourself with extremist sects like Al-Jabariyah, who deny > > > there is any free agency for mankind at all. That's probably does suit > > > your > > > agenda, so I can see why you're drawn to it. It's hardly objective, > > > though; > > > more like pick 'n mix theology or, from some perspectives, free-wheeling > > > apostasy. > > > {snicker} The concept of agency is not extremist, certainly not in > > light of the evidence of the space-time continuum, which must contain > > ALL events. > > > > > And, besides, the 'appearance' of free > > > > will DOES exist. > > > > Is anyone else troubled by the idea of a prankster God? :) > > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qmglGWMsdk > > > > Ian
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