In terms of intellectual honesty, Pat, your position is exceptional, as in outstanding.
But, as an adherent of One, and oneness, the heart needs to pick its message from the alienation of others, even if it is ' clearly ' on their own account. That message is of Love, which alone homogenises the outside and the inside. Consider that just a tiny miniscule is exposed to formal concepts of physics, and just a handful would have any idea of string theory. Is the farmer doomed ? On Jan 21, 10:18 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > On 21 Jan, 15:02, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > No, Pat, nothing to do with lying or not. It is about a position that > > alienates simple and good people, if different, who happen to continue > > to believe in their self alone, and not even by what they knew or > > believed in the previous moment. > > > The fact is : any position that has specificity, defined particularly, > > however good or great, is limiting ... there is it, and there are > > others. The limitation can only be overcome by more clarity, of the > > more fundamental issue ... inclusivity, in practice, in reality. > > And The One that is the basis of my physics is all-inclusive, as there > are no others. I don't TRY to alienate, but if another feels > alienated, that is THEIR inference rather than my implication. > > > > > On Jan 21, 6:52 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On 21 Jan, 13:47, Vamadevananda <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > " The Kafir refuses to accept that the will of Allah rules. Iman is > > > > a realisation that the will of Allah is what governs all." > > > > > I can't write this without calling for Fran's attention. The Question > > > > to you, Pat : But what is the will of Allah ? Is it history, as we > > > > know ? ... as we understand on our own ? ... as we learn in scientific > > > > theories and models ? ... as we feel ? ... as in folk lore ? ... as in > > > > myths ? ... as in ideas advanced by other individuals, good, bad, > > > > ugly, saintly, religious, knowledgeable , prophet like ? ... > > > > > WHAT is the will of Allah ? WHO knows ? WHY should I believe it, > > > > since my own ( good ) sense says otherwise ? All this, especially > > > > since you agree that NOT ONE of us here have an access to future ! > > > > Even Jesus is reported to have observed : Not I. Only my Father knows. > > > > Thus Jesus' comment in Gethsemene: Not my will, but Thine be done. > > > God's will is "that which has occurred, that which is occurring and > > > that which will occur". Nothing more, nothing less. And that is the > > > truth of it. As to who knows, well, yes, Only the One knows ALL of > > > it, as that's the definition of omniscience. Omnipotence is the > > > ability to carry out that will and omnipresence is what allows Him to > > > do it. What we know are small parts of it. Your own good sense, > > > surely doesn't tell you I'm lying in what I've just said, does it? > > > > > On Jan 21, 5:40 pm, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On 20 Jan, 19:19, Ian Pollard <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > 2010/1/20 Pat <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > Not in the Qur'an it's not. > > > > > > > Pat, > > > > > > > In the Qu'ran, Eeman and Kufr are a matter of free will for > > > > > > humanity. > > > > > > Rather they are a matter of realisation. The Kafir refuses to accept > > > > > that the will of Allah rules. Iman is a realisation that the will of > > > > > Allah is what governs all. Realisations 'occur' to people, you don't > > > > > choose them. Have you never had a thought 'occur' to you? If you > > > > > have, what choice did you have IN that occurrance? Try looking into > > > > > Qadar/Qadr, i.e., kismet. In the Qur'an, it is clearly stated that > > > > > Allah is the Creator of all things. Do you not think that includes > > > > > your 'supposed' will? > > > > > > >On > > > > > > that principle, I believe almost all denominations of Muslims *do* > > > > > > agree > > > > > > (and I can think of nothing more important, personally). I can only > > > > > > assume > > > > > > you're aligning yourself with extremist sects like Al-Jabariyah, > > > > > > who deny > > > > > > there is any free agency for mankind at all. That's probably does > > > > > > suit your > > > > > > agenda, so I can see why you're drawn to it. It's hardly objective, > > > > > > though; > > > > > > more like pick 'n mix theology or, from some perspectives, > > > > > > free-wheeling > > > > > > apostasy. > > > > > > {snicker} The concept of agency is not extremist, certainly not in > > > > > light of the evidence of the space-time continuum, which must contain > > > > > ALL events. > > > > > > > > And, besides, the 'appearance' of free > > > > > > > will DOES exist. > > > > > > > Is anyone else troubled by the idea of a prankster God? :) > > > > > > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qmglGWMsdk > > > > > > > Ian- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
