The ability to speculate does not, in itself, asume the ability to change (their internal makeup.) While change would include speculation, it is also dependent of much greater human capibilities. There is no denying physical change that I know of, while aging comes faster for some, it does come to all...
On Feb 16, 7:55 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > On 13 Feb, 12:30, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I think we have been through this point of Pat's many times in here. > > He is not saying that our future is etched in stone - because his > > vision includes infinite possibility. > > Uh...yes I am, actually. The difference is that we can't read what's > on the stone. At least not that part of the stone that hasn't yet, > from our point of view, been written yet. Also, I don't claim that > there are an infinite amount of possibilities. I oonly state that ALL > possibilities WILL be played out in space-time at some point. This > could take a huge series of Big-Bang to Annihilation sequences to > play, but not necessarily an infinite series--in fact, almost > assuredly NOT. There is no way that God can create a spherical cube. > Such a thing is not possible. We can discuss it because it exists as > an abstract that is contradictive, but, BECAUSE it is contradictive, > it canot happen. > > >Which possibility manifests > > into our experience is formed with our viewpoint. But possibility is > > not removed from or included in the infinite (all possibility), but > > included in or removed from our manifest experience, through the veil > > of our viewpoint. We bind ourselves (or provide our own illusion) > > with our viewpoint, and state of consciousness it provides. Is a man > > considered an automaton if he does not change his viewpoint for > > decades? Maybe so. > > No man is an automaton because none of them has access to the future. > No THINKING man is an automaton because he has the ability to > speculate. An individual who is bed-ridden and comatose and, > therefore, has no ability to speculate, may be considered an > automaton, thus the concept of referring to them as 'a vegetable'. > > > > > On Feb 13, 3:29 am, RP <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > If your theory of total bondage is to be believed human beings will be > > > reduced to automatons and as such , at least in the eyes of God, to > > > be free from any responsibility for their actions ,whether good or > > > evil. As such fate of all after death would be the same because how > > > can God hold anyone accountable for his actions when whatever he did > > > was in complete bondage to God's will. Saint and sinner will meet the > > > same fate after death. > > > > On Feb 12, 8:14 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On 10 Feb, 21:09, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > All I'll say is "what ever you do is what is in the space-time > > > > > continuum". And, as the space-time continuum contains all of space > > > > > and time, those events have ALWAYS been there and will ALWAYS remain > > > > > there. 'What you imagine your choices are' are just spatio-temporal > > > > > events that exist in the continuum. >Pat > > > > > > Really Pat, the Space-time Continuum has hardly been portrayed by the > > > > > scientific community as containing all elements of time, that > > > > > essentially and for this instance, being a containment of events past > > > > > and future within the time portal. > > > > > Not generally, no, because of how people react TO that. But look back > > > > at a few of Einstein's quotes like: Free Will is not compatible with > > > > space-time. He understood it but realised it wasn't a kettle of fish > > > > HE wan'ted to open. Minkowski knew it too. But, because of the > > > > radical changes it makes to the meaning of our lives, these people > > > > 'chose' to avoid that aspect of it and focus on physical things that > > > > DIDN'T open moral ketles of fish. > > > > > By definition a continuum contains all the point of whatever it > > > > contains. Therefore, if the continuum is a space-time continuum, it > > > > MUST contain all the spatio-temporal events that have occurred/are > > > > occurring/will occur. > > > > > >The non-spatial aspect of the time > > > > > dimension alone requires alternate mathematical equation, separate and > > > > > independent, in order to even begin evaluating it as having the > > > > > capability of containing incidents with 3d spatial qualities in some > > > > > chronological sequence. The temporal dimension may indicate a "when" > > > > > an occurrence may take place without defining the occurrence. > > > > > But the temporal and spatial dimensions are NOT separate. Therefore > > > > one cannot separate them like that. They are stiched together for all > > > > time throughout all space. And that would include the entire > > > > continuum of Big Bang-to-ultimate destruction-to-next Big Ban > > > > sequence. The entire sequence of Big Bang sequences is contained in > > > > the space-time continuum. > > > > > >But I > > > > > do think that more inquiry should be directed towards whether the > > > > > human mind, human imagination and human will is interdependent upon > > > > > any sequence in the temporal dimension of the space-time continuum. > > > > > Perhaps that is where distinction takes place, the departure of the > > > > > sentient experience from that of ordinary events confined to the > > > > > temporal dimension. This could be exemplified by the continuity of > > > > > planetary systems and orbital sequences within the universe. We can > > > > > calculate a solar eclipse or what time the sun will rise at any given > > > > > global coordinate but cannot indicate any future event concerning the > > > > > human experience ie; longevity and demise. So the attempt to establish > > > > > a connection between human events based on theoretical speculations is > > > > > at best speculative in and of itself. > > > > > Mostly, we can't calculate human events because the REAL events are > > > > quantum events. If we knew, for example, that there was a large > > > > asteroid headed for the Moon that would destroy it tomorrow, our > > > > 'calculations' for the next solar Eclipse would NOT have taken that > > > > into account. Therefore, even those occultations are 'presuming' that > > > > any unforeseen circumstances won't upset the system. They might and, > > > > as they are unforeseen, we won't know until it's too late. > > > > > > Now of course you should re-examine religious concepts that allow for > > > > > huge "IFs" such as destinations to heavenly locales based upon moral > > > > > behavioral choices when you are presenting "destiny" in the form of > > > > > pre-destined human experiences contained in the space-time continuum. > > > > > This is one of the main flaws in your presentation that leaves me > > > > > doubtful. > > > > > The Qur'an is qute clear that Allah guides whom He will and 'leaves > > > > astray' whom He will. This pretty well sums up that some people, > > > > whether they like it or not ARE damned from birth. But, because we > > > > have no access to the future, we don't know, ourselves, who those > > > > people are and could, change our thinking to avoid it. Whilst we > > > > would be, in reality, only fulfilling our destiny from God's > > > > perspective, from OUR perspective, we would 'think' we have altered > > > > our way of life in such a way as to preserve our souls. > > > > Remember that the key facts that give us the illusion of free will > > > > are: > > > > 1) We have no access to the future > > > > 2) We can speculate before we act > > > > > Change either of those two, and the illusion will disappear. > > > > > > On Feb 10, 6:20 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > On 10 Feb, 02:14, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Prescribed "Destiny" cannot be possible because I can choose > > > > > > > tomorrow > > > > > > > to stay in bed everyday until my destiny is forced upon me. > > > > > > > Choice is > > > > > > > not destiny. Please don't try to tell me that then my destiny > > > > > > > will be > > > > > > > to remain in bed everyday 24/7 because that is not going to fly. > > > > > > > All I'll say is "what ever you do is what is in the space-time > > > > > > continuum". And, as the space-time continuum contains all of space > > > > > > and time, those events have ALWAYS been there and will ALWAYS remain > > > > > > there. 'What you imagine your choices are' are just spatio-temporal > > > > > > events that exist in the continuum. > > > > > > > > The real issue with world hunger/poverty is that it "IS" curable. > > > > > > > There are simple solutions to world hunger/poverty but humanity is > > > > > > > just not doing anything about it. There are simple solutions to > > > > > > > homelessness but humanity is not doing anything about it. > > > > > > > Yup. Agreed. Sad, though, isn't it? > > > > > > > > What humanity "IS" doing is foreclosing on homes and farms, paying > > > > > > > farmers not to grow crops as a means of controlling stock figures > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > numerous other blockage devices designed to encourage quagmires. > > > > > > > > What humanity "IS" doing is setting up systems of government and > > > > > > > financial institutions that create "Mega Wealth" and "Wars" to > > > > > > > gain > > > > > > > wealth and it "IS" being accomplished without any problem. > > > > > > > Mega wealth>No Problem War>No Problem Hunger>Problem > > > > > > > Homelessness>Problem Poverty>Problem > > > > > > > > Then you have the sheep that are freezing in the cold while their > > > > > > > wool > > > > > > > is constantly being fleeced. They don't understand why they are > > > > > > > always in the cold when they have so much wool. They look and > > > > > > > see > > > > > > > the fleecers living warm and cozy with their wool and see piles of > > > > > > > wool not being used but sold to other fleecers. The sheep get > > > > > > > tired > > > > > > > of being cold so they start to get back their wool but the prices > > > > > > > are > > > > > > > really high and some sheep can't afford to buy any, so they must > > > > > > > remain cold, some are so cold that they freeze to death. Some of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > sheep protest but many of them are jailed, assassinated and turned > > > > > > > into mutton soup. > > > > > > > One of the sheep named Shep tells the other sheep that the reason > > > > > > > they > > > > > > > are cold is because they were born as bad sheep and must pray to > > > > > > > BahBah the great sheep deity. Shep teaches the sheep how to pray > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
