On 13 Feb, 01:06, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
> Your a hard case Pat, but your position is weakening. The combination
> of the temporal dimension with that of space-time still represents
> individual components as a 3+1 model. Time is an added component to
> establish when the where event takes place and still subject to time
> dilation via the influence of light speed and gravitational forces.
> It is not that time is being separated but that it is recognized as
> being unique in relation to the other dimensions. That aspect alone
> separates it as a a unique dimension regardless of the mathematical
> model which essentially only combines several physical "theories". If
> you remember this from Peyi a fini, we concluded with your
> consciousness involves the entity of your physical being
> which exists as a mathematical property. To conclude that your
> consciousness establishes a similarity that extends space time calabi
> yau is conjectural theory which relies on the exclusion of fluxes.
> That alone negates a fixed set of parameters within the dimension.
> Much of it all comes out of the need to establish string theory with
> models of unseen spatial dimensions. So establishing a consciousness
> within that realm seems a bit premature and unfounded based on the
> lack of physical evidence. Of course you can always add an imaginary
> physical being with a consciousness in the string theory landscape,
> but you probably did that already, ergo; God and the Plan.
> To which you replied; I like it. Although I disagree, I see your
> point. Premature? Well,
> perhaps, but that's what speculation IS. I state it because, given
> ALL of human experiences, this conformation is the only one that CAN
> explain them all. I no of no other that comes anywhere close. My
> physics is the simplest explanation that covers all phenomena. All
> others leave huge gaps. Should I apologise for my foresight?
> So Pat, you see the points but are stuck on a quest and a belief that
> still remains dependent upon validation of numerous theories and
> speculations. Science fiction is and has been a source of wondrous
> speculations and theories but still regardless of the formulations
> that make them appear to have solidified remain fiction. However,
> with that in mind I will say that I don't and never have faulted you
> for having the foresight. Many imaginings of men of the past have
> come to fruition though they were thought pipe dreams in their time.
> Perhaps there will be a time in the far future that these theories and
> speculative concepts will take on new meaning in the world,
> unfortunately and in the context of our dialogue we are both lost in
> dreamland.
>
Well, you're lost, I'm not. Whilst I completely admit that my
theories are speculative, that is what the hypothesis part of the
scientific method is. It's where science begins. I've drawn
conclusions that may be, technically, premature, yet may be, actually,
spot on. Whether or not there is enough time to prove them is another
aspect. We might infer some aspects which point towards it, but it
may only get that far. It's too early to tell. Yet I will not be
thwarted in my hypothesising simply because that's what it is. I feel
science needs to be pointed in the right direction and, in some areas,
is (as the quote from Raiders of the Lost Ark goes) 'digging in the
wrong place'.
Back to the space-time continuum...It isn't a 3+1; it's a 1 that is
{3,1} in nature. There's a difference. Time isn't added, it was
always there. Time is the space between events. Simple as.
> On Feb 12, 10:14 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 10 Feb, 21:09, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > All I'll say is "what ever you do is what is in the space-time
> > > continuum". And, as the space-time continuum contains all of space
> > > and time, those events have ALWAYS been there and will ALWAYS remain
> > > there. 'What you imagine your choices are' are just spatio-temporal
> > > events that exist in the continuum. >Pat
>
> > > Really Pat, the Space-time Continuum has hardly been portrayed by the
> > > scientific community as containing all elements of time, that
> > > essentially and for this instance, being a containment of events past
> > > and future within the time portal.
>
> > Not generally, no, because of how people react TO that. But look back
> > at a few of Einstein's quotes like: Free Will is not compatible with
> > space-time. He understood it but realised it wasn't a kettle of fish
> > HE wan'ted to open. Minkowski knew it too. But, because of the
> > radical changes it makes to the meaning of our lives, these people
> > 'chose' to avoid that aspect of it and focus on physical things that
> > DIDN'T open moral ketles of fish.
>
> > By definition a continuum contains all the point of whatever it
> > contains. Therefore, if the continuum is a space-time continuum, it
> > MUST contain all the spatio-temporal events that have occurred/are
> > occurring/will occur.
>
> > >The non-spatial aspect of the time
> > > dimension alone requires alternate mathematical equation, separate and
> > > independent, in order to even begin evaluating it as having the
> > > capability of containing incidents with 3d spatial qualities in some
> > > chronological sequence. The temporal dimension may indicate a "when"
> > > an occurrence may take place without defining the occurrence.
>
> > But the temporal and spatial dimensions are NOT separate. Therefore
> > one cannot separate them like that. They are stiched together for all
> > time throughout all space. And that would include the entire
> > continuum of Big Bang-to-ultimate destruction-to-next Big Ban
> > sequence. The entire sequence of Big Bang sequences is contained in
> > the space-time continuum.
>
> > >But I
> > > do think that more inquiry should be directed towards whether the
> > > human mind, human imagination and human will is interdependent upon
> > > any sequence in the temporal dimension of the space-time continuum.
> > > Perhaps that is where distinction takes place, the departure of the
> > > sentient experience from that of ordinary events confined to the
> > > temporal dimension. This could be exemplified by the continuity of
> > > planetary systems and orbital sequences within the universe. We can
> > > calculate a solar eclipse or what time the sun will rise at any given
> > > global coordinate but cannot indicate any future event concerning the
> > > human experience ie; longevity and demise. So the attempt to establish
> > > a connection between human events based on theoretical speculations is
> > > at best speculative in and of itself.
>
> > Mostly, we can't calculate human events because the REAL events are
> > quantum events. If we knew, for example, that there was a large
> > asteroid headed for the Moon that would destroy it tomorrow, our
> > 'calculations' for the next solar Eclipse would NOT have taken that
> > into account. Therefore, even those occultations are 'presuming' that
> > any unforeseen circumstances won't upset the system. They might and,
> > as they are unforeseen, we won't know until it's too late.
>
> > > Now of course you should re-examine religious concepts that allow for
> > > huge "IFs" such as destinations to heavenly locales based upon moral
> > > behavioral choices when you are presenting "destiny" in the form of
> > > pre-destined human experiences contained in the space-time continuum.
> > > This is one of the main flaws in your presentation that leaves me
> > > doubtful.
>
> > The Qur'an is qute clear that Allah guides whom He will and 'leaves
> > astray' whom He will. This pretty well sums up that some people,
> > whether they like it or not ARE damned from birth. But, because we
> > have no access to the future, we don't know, ourselves, who those
> > people are and could, change our thinking to avoid it. Whilst we
> > would be, in reality, only fulfilling our destiny from God's
> > perspective, from OUR perspective, we would 'think' we have altered
> > our way of life in such a way as to preserve our souls.
> > Remember that the key facts that give us the illusion of free will
> > are:
> > 1) We have no access to the future
> > 2) We can speculate before we act
>
> > Change either of those two, and the illusion will disappear.
>
> > > On Feb 10, 6:20 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > On 10 Feb, 02:14, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > Prescribed "Destiny" cannot be possible because I can choose tomorrow
> > > > > to stay in bed everyday until my destiny is forced upon me. Choice is
> > > > > not destiny. Please don't try to tell me that then my destiny will be
> > > > > to remain in bed everyday 24/7 because that is not going to fly.
>
> > > > All I'll say is "what ever you do is what is in the space-time
> > > > continuum". And, as the space-time continuum contains all of space
> > > > and time, those events have ALWAYS been there and will ALWAYS remain
> > > > there. 'What you imagine your choices are' are just spatio-temporal
> > > > events that exist in the continuum.
>
> > > > > The real issue with world hunger/poverty is that it "IS" curable.
> > > > > There are simple solutions to world hunger/poverty but humanity is
> > > > > just not doing anything about it. There are simple solutions to
> > > > > homelessness but humanity is not doing anything about it.
>
> > > > Yup. Agreed. Sad, though, isn't it?
>
> > > > > What humanity "IS" doing is foreclosing on homes and farms, paying
> > > > > farmers not to grow crops as a means of controlling stock figures and
> > > > > numerous other blockage devices designed to encourage quagmires.
>
> > > > > What humanity "IS" doing is setting up systems of government and
> > > > > financial institutions that create "Mega Wealth" and "Wars" to gain
> > > > > wealth and it "IS" being accomplished without any problem.
> > > > > Mega wealth>No Problem War>No Problem Hunger>Problem
> > > > > Homelessness>Problem Poverty>Problem
>
> > > > > Then you have the sheep that are freezing in the cold while their wool
> > > > > is constantly being fleeced. They don't understand why they are
> > > > > always in the cold when they have so much wool. They look and see
> > > > > the fleecers living warm and cozy with their wool and see piles of
> > > > > wool not being used but sold to other fleecers. The sheep get tired
> > > > > of being cold so they start to get back their wool but the prices are
> > > > > really high and some sheep can't afford to buy any, so they must
> > > > > remain cold, some are so cold that they freeze to death. Some of the
> > > > > sheep protest but many of them are jailed, assassinated and turned
> > > > > into mutton soup.
> > > > > One of the sheep named Shep tells the other sheep that the reason they
> > > > > are cold is because they were born as bad sheep and must pray to
> > > > > BahBah the great sheep deity. Shep teaches the sheep how to pray and
> > > > > tells the sheep they need to keep him warm so that he can keep
> > > > > teaching them about BahBah. The sheep
>
> ...
>
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