With a bow to that Molly, here is my favorite quote of all time.
"To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And a Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour." -W. Blake
On 2/12/2010 8:15 PM, Molly wrote:
"what seems to be is, to those to whom it seems to be." - William
Blake
On Feb 12, 8:06 pm, Slip Disc<[email protected]> wrote:
Your a hard case Pat, but your position is weakening. The combination
of the temporal dimension with that of space-time still represents
individual components as a 3+1 model. Time is an added component to
establish when the where event takes place and still subject to time
dilation via the influence of light speed and gravitational forces.
It is not that time is being separated but that it is recognized as
being unique in relation to the other dimensions. That aspect alone
separates it as a a unique dimension regardless of the mathematical
model which essentially only combines several physical "theories". If
you remember this from Peyi a fini, we concluded with your
consciousness involves the entity of your physical being
which exists as a mathematical property. To conclude that your
consciousness establishes a similarity that extends space time calabi
yau is conjectural theory which relies on the exclusion of fluxes.
That alone negates a fixed set of parameters within the dimension.
Much of it all comes out of the need to establish string theory with
models of unseen spatial dimensions. So establishing a consciousness
within that realm seems a bit premature and unfounded based on the
lack of physical evidence. Of course you can always add an imaginary
physical being with a consciousness in the string theory landscape,
but you probably did that already, ergo; God and the Plan.
To which you replied; I like it. Although I disagree, I see your
point. Premature? Well,
perhaps, but that's what speculation IS. I state it because, given
ALL of human experiences, this conformation is the only one that CAN
explain them all. I no of no other that comes anywhere close. My
physics is the simplest explanation that covers all phenomena. All
others leave huge gaps. Should I apologise for my foresight?
So Pat, you see the points but are stuck on a quest and a belief that
still remains dependent upon validation of numerous theories and
speculations. Science fiction is and has been a source of wondrous
speculations and theories but still regardless of the formulations
that make them appear to have solidified remain fiction. However,
with that in mind I will say that I don't and never have faulted you
for having the foresight. Many imaginings of men of the past have
come to fruition though they were thought pipe dreams in their time.
Perhaps there will be a time in the far future that these theories and
speculative concepts will take on new meaning in the world,
unfortunately and in the context of our dialogue we are both lost in
dreamland.
On Feb 12, 10:14 am, Pat<[email protected]> wrote:
On 10 Feb, 21:09, Slip Disc<[email protected]> wrote:
All I'll say is "what ever you do is what is in the space-time
continuum". And, as the space-time continuum contains all of space
and time, those events have ALWAYS been there and will ALWAYS remain
there. 'What you imagine your choices are' are just spatio-temporal
events that exist in the continuum.>Pat
Really Pat, the Space-time Continuum has hardly been portrayed by the
scientific community as containing all elements of time, that
essentially and for this instance, being a containment of events past
and future within the time portal.
Not generally, no, because of how people react TO that. But look back
at a few of Einstein's quotes like: Free Will is not compatible with
space-time. He understood it but realised it wasn't a kettle of fish
HE wan'ted to open. Minkowski knew it too. But, because of the
radical changes it makes to the meaning of our lives, these people
'chose' to avoid that aspect of it and focus on physical things that
DIDN'T open moral ketles of fish.
By definition a continuum contains all the point of whatever it
contains. Therefore, if the continuum is a space-time continuum, it
MUST contain all the spatio-temporal events that have occurred/are
occurring/will occur.
The non-spatial aspect of the time
dimension alone requires alternate mathematical equation, separate and
independent, in order to even begin evaluating it as having the
capability of containing incidents with 3d spatial qualities in some
chronological sequence. The temporal dimension may indicate a "when"
an occurrence may take place without defining the occurrence.
But the temporal and spatial dimensions are NOT separate. Therefore
one cannot separate them like that. They are stiched together for all
time throughout all space. And that would include the entire
continuum of Big Bang-to-ultimate destruction-to-next Big Ban
sequence. The entire sequence of Big Bang sequences is contained in
the space-time continuum.
But I
do think that more inquiry should be directed towards whether the
human mind, human imagination and human will is interdependent upon
any sequence in the temporal dimension of the space-time continuum.
Perhaps that is where distinction takes place, the departure of the
sentient experience from that of ordinary events confined to the
temporal dimension. This could be exemplified by the continuity of
planetary systems and orbital sequences within the universe. We can
calculate a solar eclipse or what time the sun will rise at any given
global coordinate but cannot indicate any future event concerning the
human experience ie; longevity and demise. So the attempt to establish
a connection between human events based on theoretical speculations is
at best speculative in and of itself.
Mostly, we can't calculate human events because the REAL events are
quantum events. If we knew, for example, that there was a large
asteroid headed for the Moon that would destroy it tomorrow, our
'calculations' for the next solar Eclipse would NOT have taken that
into account. Therefore, even those occultations are 'presuming' that
any unforeseen circumstances won't upset the system. They might and,
as they are unforeseen, we won't know until it's too late.
Now of course you should re-examine religious concepts that allow for
huge "IFs" such as destinations to heavenly locales based upon moral
behavioral choices when you are presenting "destiny" in the form of
pre-destined human experiences contained in the space-time continuum.
This is one of the main flaws in your presentation that leaves me
doubtful.
The Qur'an is qute clear that Allah guides whom He will and 'leaves
astray' whom He will. This pretty well sums up that some people,
whether they like it or not ARE damned from birth. But, because we
have no access to the future, we don't know, ourselves, who those
people are and could, change our thinking to avoid it. Whilst we
would be, in reality, only fulfilling our destiny from God's
perspective, from OUR perspective, we would 'think' we have altered
our way of life in such a way as to preserve our souls.
Remember that the key facts that give us the illusion of free will
are:
1) We have no access to the future
2) We can speculate before we act
Change either of those two, and the illusion will disappear.
On Feb 10, 6:20 am, Pat<[email protected]> wrote:
On 10 Feb, 02:14, Slip Disc<[email protected]> wrote:
Prescribed "Destiny" cannot be possible because I can choose tomorrow
to stay in bed everyday until my destiny is forced upon me. Choice is
not destiny. Please don't try to tell me that then my destiny will be
to remain in bed everyday 24/7 because that is not going to fly.
All I'll say is "what ever you do is what is in the space-time
continuum". And, as the space-time continuum contains all of space
and time, those events have ALWAYS been there and will ALWAYS remain
there. 'What you imagine your choices are' are just spatio-temporal
events that exist in the continuum.
The real issue with world hunger/poverty is that it "IS" curable.
There are simple solutions to world hunger/poverty but humanity is
just not doing anything about it. There are simple solutions to
homelessness but humanity is not doing anything about it.
Yup. Agreed. Sad, though, isn't it?
What humanity "IS" doing is foreclosing on homes and farms, paying
farmers not to grow crops as a means of controlling stock figures and
numerous other blockage devices designed to encourage quagmires.
What humanity "IS" doing is setting up systems of government and
financial institutions that create "Mega Wealth" and "Wars" to gain
wealth and it "IS" being accomplished without any problem.
Mega wealth>No Problem War>No Problem Hunger>Problem
Homelessness>Problem Poverty>Problem
Then you have the sheep that are freezing in the cold while their wool
is constantly being fleeced. They don't understand why they are
always in the cold when they have so much wool. They look and see
the fleecers living warm and cozy with their wool and see piles of
wool not being used but sold to other fleecers. The sheep get tired
of being cold so they start to get back their wool but the prices are
really high and some sheep can't afford to buy any, so they must
remain cold, some are so cold that they freeze to death. Some of the
sheep protest but many of them are jailed, assassinated and turned
into mutton soup.
One of the sheep named Shep tells the other sheep that the reason they
are cold is because they were born as bad sheep and must pray to
BahBah the great sheep deity. Shep teaches the sheep how to pray and
tells the sheep they need to keep him warm so that he can keep
teaching them about BahBah. The sheep
...
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