On 16 Feb, 14:09, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > The ability to speculate does not, in itself, asume the ability to > change (their internal makeup.) While change would include > speculation, it is also dependent of much greater human capibilities.
True. It's like change does not mean progress but progress always requires change. > There is no denying physical change that I know of, while aging comes > faster for some, it does come to all... > > On Feb 16, 7:55 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > On 13 Feb, 12:30, Molly <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I think we have been through this point of Pat's many times in here. > > > He is not saying that our future is etched in stone - because his > > > vision includes infinite possibility. > > > Uh...yes I am, actually. The difference is that we can't read what's > > on the stone. At least not that part of the stone that hasn't yet, > > from our point of view, been written yet. Also, I don't claim that > > there are an infinite amount of possibilities. I oonly state that ALL > > possibilities WILL be played out in space-time at some point. This > > could take a huge series of Big-Bang to Annihilation sequences to > > play, but not necessarily an infinite series--in fact, almost > > assuredly NOT. There is no way that God can create a spherical cube. > > Such a thing is not possible. We can discuss it because it exists as > > an abstract that is contradictive, but, BECAUSE it is contradictive, > > it canot happen. > > > >Which possibility manifests > > > into our experience is formed with our viewpoint. But possibility is > > > not removed from or included in the infinite (all possibility), but > > > included in or removed from our manifest experience, through the veil > > > of our viewpoint. We bind ourselves (or provide our own illusion) > > > with our viewpoint, and state of consciousness it provides. Is a man > > > considered an automaton if he does not change his viewpoint for > > > decades? Maybe so. > > > No man is an automaton because none of them has access to the future. > > No THINKING man is an automaton because he has the ability to > > speculate. An individual who is bed-ridden and comatose and, > > therefore, has no ability to speculate, may be considered an > > automaton, thus the concept of referring to them as 'a vegetable'. > > > > On Feb 13, 3:29 am, RP <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > If your theory of total bondage is to be believed human beings will be > > > > reduced to automatons and as such , at least in the eyes of God, to > > > > be free from any responsibility for their actions ,whether good or > > > > evil. As such fate of all after death would be the same because how > > > > can God hold anyone accountable for his actions when whatever he did > > > > was in complete bondage to God's will. Saint and sinner will meet the > > > > same fate after death. > > > > > On Feb 12, 8:14 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On 10 Feb, 21:09, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > All I'll say is "what ever you do is what is in the space-time > > > > > > continuum". And, as the space-time continuum contains all of space > > > > > > and time, those events have ALWAYS been there and will ALWAYS remain > > > > > > there. 'What you imagine your choices are' are just spatio-temporal > > > > > > events that exist in the continuum. >Pat > > > > > > > Really Pat, the Space-time Continuum has hardly been portrayed by > > > > > > the > > > > > > scientific community as containing all elements of time, that > > > > > > essentially and for this instance, being a containment of events > > > > > > past > > > > > > and future within the time portal. > > > > > > Not generally, no, because of how people react TO that. But look back > > > > > at a few of Einstein's quotes like: Free Will is not compatible with > > > > > space-time. He understood it but realised it wasn't a kettle of fish > > > > > HE wan'ted to open. Minkowski knew it too. But, because of the > > > > > radical changes it makes to the meaning of our lives, these people > > > > > 'chose' to avoid that aspect of it and focus on physical things that > > > > > DIDN'T open moral ketles of fish. > > > > > > By definition a continuum contains all the point of whatever it > > > > > contains. Therefore, if the continuum is a space-time continuum, it > > > > > MUST contain all the spatio-temporal events that have occurred/are > > > > > occurring/will occur. > > > > > > >The non-spatial aspect of the time > > > > > > dimension alone requires alternate mathematical equation, separate > > > > > > and > > > > > > independent, in order to even begin evaluating it as having the > > > > > > capability of containing incidents with 3d spatial qualities in some > > > > > > chronological sequence. The temporal dimension may indicate a > > > > > > "when" > > > > > > an occurrence may take place without defining the occurrence. > > > > > > But the temporal and spatial dimensions are NOT separate. Therefore > > > > > one cannot separate them like that. They are stiched together for all > > > > > time throughout all space. And that would include the entire > > > > > continuum of Big Bang-to-ultimate destruction-to-next Big Ban > > > > > sequence. The entire sequence of Big Bang sequences is contained in > > > > > the space-time continuum. > > > > > > >But I > > > > > > do think that more inquiry should be directed towards whether the > > > > > > human mind, human imagination and human will is interdependent upon > > > > > > any sequence in the temporal dimension of the space-time continuum. > > > > > > Perhaps that is where distinction takes place, the departure of the > > > > > > sentient experience from that of ordinary events confined to the > > > > > > temporal dimension. This could be exemplified by the continuity of > > > > > > planetary systems and orbital sequences within the universe. We can > > > > > > calculate a solar eclipse or what time the sun will rise at any > > > > > > given > > > > > > global coordinate but cannot indicate any future event concerning > > > > > > the > > > > > > human experience ie; longevity and demise. So the attempt to > > > > > > establish > > > > > > a connection between human events based on theoretical speculations > > > > > > is > > > > > > at best speculative in and of itself. > > > > > > Mostly, we can't calculate human events because the REAL events are > > > > > quantum events. If we knew, for example, that there was a large > > > > > asteroid headed for the Moon that would destroy it tomorrow, our > > > > > 'calculations' for the next solar Eclipse would NOT have taken that > > > > > into account. Therefore, even those occultations are 'presuming' that > > > > > any unforeseen circumstances won't upset the system. They might and, > > > > > as they are unforeseen, we won't know until it's too late. > > > > > > > Now of course you should re-examine religious concepts that allow > > > > > > for > > > > > > huge "IFs" such as destinations to heavenly locales based upon moral > > > > > > behavioral choices when you are presenting "destiny" in the form of > > > > > > pre-destined human experiences contained in the space-time > > > > > > continuum. > > > > > > This is one of the main flaws in your presentation that leaves me > > > > > > doubtful. > > > > > > The Qur'an is qute clear that Allah guides whom He will and 'leaves > > > > > astray' whom He will. This pretty well sums up that some people, > > > > > whether they like it or not ARE damned from birth. But, because we > > > > > have no access to the future, we don't know, ourselves, who those > > > > > people are and could, change our thinking to avoid it. Whilst we > > > > > would be, in reality, only fulfilling our destiny from God's > > > > > perspective, from OUR perspective, we would 'think' we have altered > > > > > our way of life in such a way as to preserve our souls. > > > > > Remember that the key facts that give us the illusion of free will > > > > > are: > > > > > 1) We have no access to the future > > > > > 2) We can speculate before we act > > > > > > Change either of those two, and the illusion will disappear. > > > > > > > On Feb 10, 6:20 am, Pat <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > On 10 Feb, 02:14, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Prescribed "Destiny" cannot be possible because I can choose > > > > > > > > tomorrow > > > > > > > > to stay in bed everyday until my destiny is forced upon me. > > > > > > > > Choice is > > > > > > > > not destiny. Please don't try to tell me that then my destiny > > > > > > > > will be > > > > > > > > to remain in bed everyday 24/7 because that is not going to fly. > > > > > > > > All I'll say is "what ever you do is what is in the space-time > > > > > > > continuum". And, as the space-time continuum contains all of > > > > > > > space > > > > > > > and time, those events have ALWAYS been there and will ALWAYS > > > > > > > remain > > > > > > > there. 'What you imagine your choices are' are just > > > > > > > spatio-temporal > > > > > > > events that exist in the continuum. > > > > > > > > > The real issue with world hunger/poverty is that it "IS" > > > > > > > > curable. > > > > > > > > There are simple solutions to world hunger/poverty but humanity > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > just not doing anything about it. There are simple solutions to > > > > > > > > homelessness but humanity is not doing anything about it. > > > > > > > > Yup. Agreed. Sad, though, isn't it? > > > > > > > > > What humanity "IS" doing is foreclosing on homes and farms, > > > > > > > > paying > > > > > > > > farmers not to grow crops as a means of controlling stock > > > > > > > > figures and > > > > > > > > numerous other blockage devices designed to encourage quagmires. > > > > > > > > > What humanity "IS" doing is setting up systems of government and > > > > > > > > financial institutions that create "Mega Wealth" and "Wars" to > > > > > > > > gain > > > > > > > > wealth and it "IS" being accomplished without any problem. > > > > > > > > Mega wealth>No Problem War>No Problem Hunger>Problem > > > > > > > > Homelessness>Problem Poverty>Problem > > > > > > > > > Then you have the sheep that are freezing in the cold while > > > > > > > > their wool > > > > > > > > is constantly being fleeced. They don't understand why they are > > > > > > > > always in the cold when they have so much wool. They look and > > > > > > > > see > > > > > > > > the fleecers living warm and cozy with their wool and see piles > > > > > > > > of > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
