I submitted a reply to this post, I don't know what happened to it. Is google acting weird again?
On Feb 23, 11:34 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > Meh! As I say in my first post what interest this one will have for > the athiest I really don't know. Take it as read my freind that I > belive that God exists and so any post relating to 'my invisible > friend' none existance is counter productive to this particular > debate. > > It may happen that in the fullness of time I may well 'do an Ian'. It > may not, who can see into the future? > > You are right though all of human exeriance and all ideas are > subjective, however with religoin there really is nothing else that is > comparible, so it is quite literaly a branch of thought out there on > it's own. > > On 23 Feb, 17:25, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Lee; > > How can a message transcend that of culture when the fact is that the > > entire concept of deity existence is a product of culture and simply > > exists within the minds of humanity. > > > Note: The addition of the letter o to the word God gives us Good and > > the addition of the letter d to the word Evil gives us Devil. Hence > > we have the primary basis of any belief, the obvious difference of > > good and evil portrayed by representations of a god and a devil and > > perceived to be separate entities in a constant state of confrontation > > and entanglement in pursuit of the aligned capitulation of all > > humanity to one or the other. This of course has resulted in > > humanity's constant state of dichotomous deity beliefs which are more > > numerous than existing cultures. > > > The fact that any human belief or for that matter any human 'Idea' is > > contingent upon mans subjectivity therefore rendering it open for > > multiple interpretations, conclusions, dictum and dogmas. Ultimately > > the only "Void" in the whole scheme of things is the one left empty by > > the deities themselves, who only make their presence known through the > > imaginations of the human mind. > > > The ancients sat around open fire pits in the wilderness needing to > > find answers to the whys of life, they obviously couldn't find any > > tangible answers so understandably they attributed all things to a > > deity, one that could create all things, was omniscient, omnipresent > > etc etc. > > > Once man established human thought as being the veritable words of a > > deity and also recognized that being a direct recipient of messages > > from a deity had its advantages in the form of controlling the masses > > of ignorant people, all hell broke loose. As people learned to > > position themselves as transcendent beings deserving of higher status > > in the cultural strata, they began to issue the dogma that is still > > prevalent today. > > As a convenience these same people used this position to declare other > > people and other cultures as evil and initiate decrees for the > > complete annihilation of any and all who would oppose the rule of > > "GoOD". > > > The world has become "littered" with religions and littered is a good > > word because much so that is all they have become. Nothing has > > changed on account of religion, no deity has descended from the sky as > > a glowing light or ball of fire, man is still running around in the > > dark without a clue, people are still taking up the sword in the name > > of a god that wants to kill those who don't believe. Catholicism has > > amassed great wealth in the process while catholics suck up to the > > pope and pedophile priests, Muslims are out to kill thousands, gurus > > are out in a multitude of different colors dancing and chanting > > transcendence amidst human squalor and "new" religions are popping up > > daily, claiming to be the new Truth drug. Its a circus to say the > > least. > > > Meanwhile back at the "Reality" ranch, the governments have a lanyard > > wrapped around our gonads with their own form of religion, that being > > the patriotic duty of all citizens to forfeit a good portion of their > > funds to the people that boss them around, the patriotic duty to > > blindly lay down your life as a pawn in some declared military > > operation regardless of right or wrong and the duty to bend over and > > take it without lubrication when they act irresponsibly. God giveth > > and Gov taketh. > > > On Feb 23, 6:51 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Hey OM. > > > > I guess we can say by message I mean scripture. What is holy > > > scripture if not Gods message to humaity, encompassing teachings, Gods > > > plans, what God requires of us etc... > > > > The notion of life including a divine spark is included in this > > > message, or where else would you have the idea from? I guess I am > > > also talking about reveled truth, something that I certianly belive > > > in. How can a theist not belive in such a thing? If the truth of God > > > message is not reveled by God then the assumption is that it is made > > > up by the minds of humans. > > > Anybody could literaly say anything they liked, promote any idea they > > > wanted about God and Gods plan, the ultimate authority on what God > > > wants us to do, must come from God, otherwise, all manor of these > > > 'truths' sping up, which of course makes it hard to choose wich one to > > > belive. In every belife there must be a yardstick by which to measure > > > the validity. Reveald truth is one of the ones that I use to measure > > > religoin. > > > > In Sikhi the very first lines of Guru Granth Sahib are: > > > > 'Ikoncar, sat naam' Which translates literaly into '1 God, true > > > name' But we know the problem with literal translations, and so I > > > personaly translate it (wrongly or rightly I know not) as meaning, '1 > > > God, whose name is true/truth' > > > > Delving further the idea is thus: '1 God, who is the only absolute > > > truth' > > > > This is an example of such a message. > > > > Yet from just this little line, many ideas are formulated, God is the > > > only truth must also mean that God is immenent throughout the > > > creation, and thus your idea of a divine spark in humanity is also > > > addressed. > > > > The problem I'm having curently is with dogma, and it's cultural > > > bounderies. In the east it is rude and impolite to point your feet > > > towards somebody. Hence show throwing or hiting somebody or > > > somebodies effigy with your shoe is an insult, whilst washing > > > sombodies feet is an act of supreame humility and respect. > > > > We have an example of this in the Bilbe, with the prostitue washing > > > the feet of Jesus. > > > > This though is 100% cultural, and it's meaning is lost on those of a > > > diffrant culture. Divine message, easpecialy if the intent is global > > > should transcend culture, I think. > > > > Why do I say this? It is virtualy impossible for us humans to thing > > > outside of our cultrual norms. If this its true then God surely knows > > > this and so any message from God, I would expect to be cultural-less, > > > and timeless. relevant to all soscity over all time. Again > > > otherwise the assumption is the message come from the minds of man. > > > > On 23 Feb, 12:13, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Lee, if by ‘message’ you mean some linguistic directive or informative > > > > event, the notion of such commentary by a deity transcending culture > > > > is a strange one, no? Perhaps you mean things like “Don’t kill.” > > > > “Treat others like you want to be treated” etc. I’m not sure. Perhaps > > > > you could expand upon your premise here some, OK? > > > > > Beyond revealed ‘truths’ (something I don’t embrace), perhaps we > > > > should include the notion that life itself includes a divine spark… > > > > shall we? If so, all sorts of results are possible. > > > > > The issue here as I see it is inherent in the meaning of ‘theist’ > > > > itself. . . one who believes in the existence of a god or gods. > > > > Linguistically, the term ‘believes in’ has been interpreted in almost > > > > countless different ways…each suited to support the sensibilities of > > > > the interpreter. So, as interesting as analysis is, for such things, > > > > few can find actual clarity. So, how does intuition fit into this? So > > > > far, there seems to be a general consensus here that we all have this > > > > ability. My guess is that even using intuition, core belief systems > > > > can and do easily overshadow any direct application of such a rarefied > > > > methodology. > > > > > So, again, for me…it appears that one must clarify all core beliefs > > > > first. Find out how/when/why they were formed…transcend any blind > > > > beliefs with more informed ones…etc. How else do we have any hope for > > > > knowing anything for sure? Yet, even here, difficulties abound as we > > > > know. > > > > > Returning to your theme here, your main issue seems to be “…how to > > > > seperate the message of God from that of man.” A quick analysis here > > > > may be of interest. What exactly is the difference? Do theists find > > > > god something separate from themselves, thus requiring some sort of > > > > objective qualifier of any ‘messages’ therefrom? One would have to > > > > address the very nature of god here to have a chance at arriving at a > > > > satisfactory answer it would seem. And, here again, we run into the > > > > issue of confused beliefs that humans can come up with. So, what if we > > > > assume that all thoughts…rational or not are to be considered? Is this > > > > of any use? I’m sure not for some, yet it is an interesting question, > > > > no? In such an epistemological pursuit, the subjective nature of all > > > > concepts and language becomes readily apparent. So, back to your > > > > question. Perhaps you wish to *know* on some deep level that which you > > > > (or anyone) should follow as being divine will, is that more of the > > > > issue for you? > > > > > On Feb 23, 3:19 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > So you Atheists can of course get involded in this one, I really don't > > > > > know why you should or what the interest for you would be, but do feel > > > > > free. > > > > > > I was thinking the other day about religion and culture. I'm somewhat > > > > > worried about how to seperate the message of God from that > > ... > > read more » -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. 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