Perhaps we should bring the scientists in on this.... ;-) http://creationmuseum.org/
On Feb 23, 10:13 am, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > Well my friend, there is no more proof of non existence than there is > for existence. Still contending the source as imaginative mind > melting and human conjuring, I don't discount the mystique of life. > If the origination had remained intact and consistent throughout > history and the heinous atrocities never transpired perhaps there > would be no atheists, or very few. But that religious beliefs > ramified throughout time to the point of the current chaos it seems > understandably wise to just step back out of the way and just watch > the pandemonium from the safety of the side lines. It can get to be a > lonely world out there when the majority of believers ostracize those > who don't ascribe. Much of the attraction to religion stems from the > need to socialize and network, to identify with others who find peace > and security within the confines of the belief. > Gods don't need to write books, humans need to write books and now we > need to put together CD's and DVD's. Why would a god that has the > capability of creating the entire universe have to speak out through a > book written by a man or have to become a human through a virgin birth > only to be tortured and killed in order to free "humans" from their > sins, the ones they were born with, whatever they are. For me most > beliefs are like the superstitions of old gray haired sheep herders in > the hills of afghanistan. I drive a car, fly airplanes, have cell > phones, televisions, microwave ovens, digital and laser technology, > have access to advanced medicines and we've landed a man on the moon, > have satellites and space ships with numerous scientific gadgetry on > board, so "WHY" would I want to waste my time getting involved with > some ancient scriptural ideologies written by ignorant backwards > people who shit in a hole in the sand and buried it like a cat? > > On Feb 23, 11:34 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Meh! As I say in my first post what interest this one will have for > > the athiest I really don't know. Take it as read my freind that I > > belive that God exists and so any post relating to 'my invisible > > friend' none existance is counter productive to this particular > > debate. > > > It may happen that in the fullness of time I may well 'do an Ian'. It > > may not, who can see into the future? > > > You are right though all of human exeriance and all ideas are > > subjective, however with religoin there really is nothing else that is > > comparible, so it is quite literaly a branch of thought out there on > > it's own. > > > On 23 Feb, 17:25, Slip Disc <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Lee; > > > How can a message transcend that of culture when the fact is that the > > > entire concept of deity existence is a product of culture and simply > > > exists within the minds of humanity. > > > > Note: The addition of the letter o to the word God gives us Good and > > > the addition of the letter d to the word Evil gives us Devil. Hence > > > we have the primary basis of any belief, the obvious difference of > > > good and evil portrayed by representations of a god and a devil and > > > perceived to be separate entities in a constant state of confrontation > > > and entanglement in pursuit of the aligned capitulation of all > > > humanity to one or the other. This of course has resulted in > > > humanity's constant state of dichotomous deity beliefs which are more > > > numerous than existing cultures. > > > > The fact that any human belief or for that matter any human 'Idea' is > > > contingent upon mans subjectivity therefore rendering it open for > > > multiple interpretations, conclusions, dictum and dogmas. Ultimately > > > the only "Void" in the whole scheme of things is the one left empty by > > > the deities themselves, who only make their presence known through the > > > imaginations of the human mind. > > > > The ancients sat around open fire pits in the wilderness needing to > > > find answers to the whys of life, they obviously couldn't find any > > > tangible answers so understandably they attributed all things to a > > > deity, one that could create all things, was omniscient, omnipresent > > > etc etc. > > > > Once man established human thought as being the veritable words of a > > > deity and also recognized that being a direct recipient of messages > > > from a deity had its advantages in the form of controlling the masses > > > of ignorant people, all hell broke loose. As people learned to > > > position themselves as transcendent beings deserving of higher status > > > in the cultural strata, they began to issue the dogma that is still > > > prevalent today. > > > As a convenience these same people used this position to declare other > > > people and other cultures as evil and initiate decrees for the > > > complete annihilation of any and all who would oppose the rule of > > > "GoOD". > > > > The world has become "littered" with religions and littered is a good > > > word because much so that is all they have become. Nothing has > > > changed on account of religion, no deity has descended from the sky as > > > a glowing light or ball of fire, man is still running around in the > > > dark without a clue, people are still taking up the sword in the name > > > of a god that wants to kill those who don't believe. Catholicism has > > > amassed great wealth in the process while catholics suck up to the > > > pope and pedophile priests, Muslims are out to kill thousands, gurus > > > are out in a multitude of different colors dancing and chanting > > > transcendence amidst human squalor and "new" religions are popping up > > > daily, claiming to be the new Truth drug. Its a circus to say the > > > least. > > > > Meanwhile back at the "Reality" ranch, the governments have a lanyard > > > wrapped around our gonads with their own form of religion, that being > > > the patriotic duty of all citizens to forfeit a good portion of their > > > funds to the people that boss them around, the patriotic duty to > > > blindly lay down your life as a pawn in some declared military > > > operation regardless of right or wrong and the duty to bend over and > > > take it without lubrication when they act irresponsibly. God giveth > > > and Gov taketh. > > > > On Feb 23, 6:51 am, Lee <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Hey OM. > > > > > I guess we can say by message I mean scripture. What is holy > > > > scripture if not Gods message to humaity, encompassing teachings, Gods > > > > plans, what God requires of us etc... > > > > > The notion of life including a divine spark is included in this > > > > message, or where else would you have the idea from? I guess I am > > > > also talking about reveled truth, something that I certianly belive > > > > in. How can a theist not belive in such a thing? If the truth of God > > > > message is not reveled by God then the assumption is that it is made > > > > up by the minds of humans. > > > > Anybody could literaly say anything they liked, promote any idea they > > > > wanted about God and Gods plan, the ultimate authority on what God > > > > wants us to do, must come from God, otherwise, all manor of these > > > > 'truths' sping up, which of course makes it hard to choose wich one to > > > > belive. In every belife there must be a yardstick by which to measure > > > > the validity. Reveald truth is one of the ones that I use to measure > > > > religoin. > > > > > In Sikhi the very first lines of Guru Granth Sahib are: > > > > > 'Ikoncar, sat naam' Which translates literaly into '1 God, true > > > > name' But we know the problem with literal translations, and so I > > > > personaly translate it (wrongly or rightly I know not) as meaning, '1 > > > > God, whose name is true/truth' > > > > > Delving further the idea is thus: '1 God, who is the only absolute > > > > truth' > > > > > This is an example of such a message. > > > > > Yet from just this little line, many ideas are formulated, God is the > > > > only truth must also mean that God is immenent throughout the > > > > creation, and thus your idea of a divine spark in humanity is also > > > > addressed. > > > > > The problem I'm having curently is with dogma, and it's cultural > > > > bounderies. In the east it is rude and impolite to point your feet > > > > towards somebody. Hence show throwing or hiting somebody or > > > > somebodies effigy with your shoe is an insult, whilst washing > > > > sombodies feet is an act of supreame humility and respect. > > > > > We have an example of this in the Bilbe, with the prostitue washing > > > > the feet of Jesus. > > > > > This though is 100% cultural, and it's meaning is lost on those of a > > > > diffrant culture. Divine message, easpecialy if the intent is global > > > > should transcend culture, I think. > > > > > Why do I say this? It is virtualy impossible for us humans to thing > > > > outside of our cultrual norms. If this its true then God surely knows > > > > this and so any message from God, I would expect to be cultural-less, > > > > and timeless. relevant to all soscity over all time. Again > > > > otherwise the assumption is the message come from the minds of man. > > > > > On 23 Feb, 12:13, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > Lee, if by ‘message’ you mean some linguistic directive or informative > > > > > event, the notion of such commentary by a deity transcending culture > > > > > is a strange one, no? Perhaps you mean things like “Don’t kill.” > > > > > “Treat others like you want to be treated” etc. I’m not sure. Perhaps > > > > > you could expand upon your premise here some, OK? > > > > > > Beyond revealed ‘truths’ (something I don’t embrace), perhaps we > > > > > should include the notion that life itself includes a divine spark… > > > > > shall we? If so, all sorts of results are possible. > > > > > > The issue here as I see it is inherent in the meaning of ‘theist’ > > > > > itself. . . one who believes in the existence of a god or gods. > > > > > Linguistically, the term ‘believes in’ has been interpreted in almost > > > > > countless different ways…each suited to support the sensibilities of > > > > > the interpreter. So, as interesting as > > ... > > read more »- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups ""Minds Eye"" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/minds-eye?hl=en.
